The Drudge Report mentioned Chelsea Clinton as a possibility for replacing her mother the other day. Now Chelsea is a little younger than me — she’s only turning 29 in February of next year — which would make her Constitutionally ineligible. Drudge then pointed out that three Senators have served who were underage.
So, are the qualifications for Representative, Senator, and President basically the speed limits of the Constitution? I mean, no one really cares that much as long as you’re close? Some would say that disregarding these stark rules in Constitution would soon mean we’ll disregard the rest of the Constitution, like if we tolerate someone going 56 in a 55 mph zone soon we’ll not prosecute people for murder. I think most can use their common sense though to distinguish a small thing from a big thing, though; yeah, those are rules in the Constitution, but we all know the Founding Fathers just pulled the age limit numbers out of their asses and it isn’t those little clauses in the Constitution that keeps us from electing foreign babies as president.
Now, all of this is not to say I think Chelsea Clinton would be a good choice. In an appointment where it’s not the American people making the choice, I think the qualifications are more important because that’s where extreme abuse is possible. Still, her age would be far from my first objection. Then again, it’s hard to get too worked up on any Senate appointment because, really, any idiot can be a Senator.
So, to the main point: There is a conspiracy theory going around that Obama was born in Kenya. I think the conspiracy is ridiculous, but even if it’s true people are trying to make a big deal whether Obama was zero months old in Kenya (born to an American mother) versus zero months old in Hawaii — like that makes any difference to who he his forty-seven years later or who the American people think they elected (they already know he spent a good portion of his childhood in Indonesia which would seem to have much more influence but is not a Constitutional disqualifier). Why this is an annoying controversy is that even if hell freezed over and these conspiracy theorists won and got Obama disqualified, they’d still be weenies. They caught Obama going 56 in a 55 mph zone and convinced everyone it was really really important.
We’re conservatives. We have jobs, families, responsibilities. Because of this, we have a very limited supply of rats’ asses. We’re not like the Kos Kids; we can’t get apoplectic over every little thing convinced it’s going to be the magic bullet to stop the other side if we just make enough noise to convince everyone it’s important. We just don’t have enough rat’s asses to give to all those little things. In the coming years there are going to be lot’s of silly conspiracy theories and minor infractions on the Democrats’ part that we could waste time on, and there will also be big things like war and socialism. You have to take a good hard look at your limited supply of precious rats’ asses and decide which things are important enough to be given one, as a huge part of being a conservative is knowing when to give and when not to give your rats’ asses.
You’re getting soft in your old age.
The reason libs, environs, and Chicago thugs are in control is that they HAVE given a rat’s ass over every bit of minutia, known to mankind, both existing and non-existing.
As conservatives many of us have jobs and responsibilities that take our TIME, so we do have to allocate due to practicality. Not so with the libs. Practicality is giving a rat’s ass to the minutia. The only way for the right (conservatives) to survive and stop the free fall we are in is to become as chicken sh*t as the libs. The result will be to grind the wheels of government to a stop which is a worthwhile end in itself. Other choices will be sit back a take it, become working slaves to the elites of the left or….guns…or suicide? Whatever choices they will not be good. Conservatives just need to decide if they are going to give a rat’s ass!
As for Chelsea what on God’s green earth does an airhead twit have for qualifications other than the globalist bullshit doctrine she has been indoctrinated with? Why shouldn’t a Senator or Representative have qualifications (other than passing a bar exam) which brings to mind Ted Kennedy who has never passed a bar that didn’t need examined, to represent us. At least if the sh*theads in the blue states are getting exactly who and what they want then fine. If you are anywhere else then your solution is give a rat’s ass and take action.
Frank, you need to drop that tired line about it not mattering whether Obama TECHNICALLY was a natural-born citizen. Seriously. It may be a small clause, but we take the Constitution as written, on the whole, or we are no better than damnably dirty hippies and Liberals. It is because we ARE Conservatives that we need to fight hardest for EVERY scrap of the Constitution. Picking and choosing what is worth defending is like Libtards and Muckadoos getting pissy about the 1st and 4th Amendments, and then taking a steaming dump on the 2nd. Slippery slope.
Stop minimizing THE F**KING Constitution!
[Slippery slope arguments are intellectually lazy. I already mentioned how a lax attitude on speed limits doesn’t lead to allowing murder. Please explain exactly how allowing a twenty-nine year old to be Senator could lead to confiscation of guns.
The Constitution wasn’t written by gods, it was written by men. I won’t fight to defend the 3/5th a person clause, so I already pick and choose. If you don’t ever want to use your common sense to figure when a rule is really important and when it isn’t, you will make a good beauracrat. -Ed.]
I like it! Another Clinton! Then another Bush! Then another Obama, then a Clinton, then a Bush, then an Obama, then a Clinton and a Bush and an Obama and well just for shits and giggles we could throw a Kennedy in… Anything to keep the American people from giving a rat’s ass! I know I don’t anymore! We get to vote for whomever the DNC and the RNC decide who we are and if they want our opinion they will give it to us…but they don’t give a rat’s ass either!
I have a question, and maybe one of y’all can answer it. Last December, Mississippi faced much the same scenario as New York is facing right now: we lost one of our senators (Trent Lott) to retirement. As such, Roger Wicker (R-1st Congressional District Representative at the time) was appointed by Gov. Barbour as the new senator from Mississippi. However, he only served in his role as appointed senator until November, when a special election was held (coinciding with the national elections) to specifically elect somebody to serve out Lott’s term (Wicker won, of course, because we’re good God-fearing, religion and gun-clinging conservatives in Mississippi).
Anyway, the question is, would whoever takes Hillary’s spot automatically serve out her term as an “appointed senator” in NY, or would they have to run in a special election sometime within the next year? Just idly wondering.
Here’s how it’s going to go down. All us rubes will, for the next 4 years, breathlessly call in to and listen to talk radio and FOX News, send our paltry little contributions in to the Republican Party and the RNC thinking that we matter. In 3 years when the next election rolls around, you will be confronted with another set of choices (bad, badder, badderist) and when the dust clears you will get to vote for Mitt Romney for POTUS or Barack Obama. Mitt came in second this time so “it’s his turn”…
Nothing you do over the next 3 years will matter! Nada, zip, zilch, zero! Rush, Laura, Hannity won’t matter! The fix is already in. Palin won’t matter! Governors won’t matter. It’s going to be Mitt. We don’t matter! They don’t give a rat’s ass what we think!
I’m saving my rat’s asses for horse-dervies for Christmas, since my hours were cut at work. The front parts of the rats I’m fashioning into mittens for my orphan children.
I also don’t get worked up about the birth certificate thing. What annoys me about the fiasco is the “Screw you, America, I ain’t gotta show you nothin'” attitude of the Messiah. Hell, we could quibble about the fact that he was born in a state so new the paint hadn’t even dried, and the inspectors were still working through their punch lists. But what good would that do?
Ssssshhhh. The leftist will figure out a way to raise taxes on rats asses if you let them know they exist. I just hope one of mine breaks wind in that ones direction.
The reason we will probably see a young woman with a prominent name for NY is tenure. Once in, a Senator is likely to stay in. So Caroline or Chelsey can be holding that seat for the Democrats for decades. And life-long rich liberals are the least likely to ever change views simply because they never personally experience a connection between their own livestyles and the mandates they intend for others.
In Illinois the push will be for a name, young, and Black for the same reasons. Jackson Jr. may not get the nod but there is a good supply of others. And female would be a bonus.
The GOP tends to reward long service and an agreeable nature in making appointments. There may be moral merit in that, but there is no political power. The Democrats do not make that mistake.
So Frank, since the 3/5 rule has already been deemed unimportant (and made official), which one of the other clauses and/or sentences aren’t you willing to fight for?
There are only 3 simple rules to meet to be POTUS. Obamuhammed has decided that 33% of the constitutional requirements he must meet are unimportant and has pretty much thumbed his nose in my face about it as well as yours.
He’s thumbed his nose at the men and women who have found and died for those 3 simple rules to be met. He won’t even salute the flag he thumbs his nose under.
We’re just simply wanting to know if he’s written requirements. We already know he doesn’t meet the unwritten ones.
[Yes, I can see a soldier dying on the battlefield now whispering, “At least I ensured that the president will have to be 35.” -Ed.]
Shoot I can’t read my own typing….found-fought. Sheesh.
Very clever. Good points, battles need to be chosen carefully, as we all have our own problems, and limited resources of time and money to deal with them.
Barry Soetero (aka Barack Hussein Obama) is a foreign financed, bitter and unremarkable man now elected to the highest office in the land. He escaped full examination of his lack of experience, qualifications, associations, and expressed views and voting record by the machinations of the liberal media, as well as leftist activists in politics and universities. Americans have had foisted upon us a father hungry, (enter Rev. Wright) ruthlessly ambitious (enter Bill Ayers) self adoring (good riddance white Grandmother) Hate America but Live Here if You Can, Chicago thug.
People who contribute nothing are entitled to the same voting rights as people who pay the nation’s bills and die in its wars. Predators and parasites of all types have the same voting privileges as responsible, lawful chumps who climb out of their beds and get themselves to jobs, raise their families, pay taxes and hope to someday retire.
We’re in for it, and buying guns and ammo ain’t gonna matter for my rat’s —-.
The comparisons you make, Frank, are ill-suited. There is a magnificent difference between lenient enforcement of the law (the examples you appeal to) and ambiguous interpretation of the law (the action you support).
To consider one of your analogies: speed limits are enforced leniently because a certain variation of speed is naturally expected, and the instruments which determine the speed (both for the motorist and the police officer) have margins of error. And that works out well-enough for everyone. But it would be quite different to *modify* the legal speed requirements based on that tolerance. In that case, we could make the same argument as before, and where would it stop? That is why “she looked old enough” doesn’t hold up in court. Circumstances can net you a more lenient sentence, which is reasonable, but a judge who lets you off does not renegotiate the law to extend the legal range. He cites you as guilty whether or not he is merciful.
When we are talking about letting someone violate the constitutional age requirement for a senator seat, that is not the ‘merciful enforcement’ of your examples, that is an actual denial of the authority of the rule.
The question is, Frank, what authority do you believe to be trumping the authority of the rule? (Which is, in this case, the Constitution.) Your essential defense would appear to be that “common sense” prevails over what is and is not acceptable to modify, omit, overlook, etc. If it is so common and so obvious then it should be easy to make the proposed change through the amendment process. That is what it is there for.
The *whole point* of a constitutional government is that the law of the constitution is supposed to be supreme. If the law of the constitution is subject to being renegotiated at the whim of present acceptability then that is not a constitutional government it all.
Better stop using the FAMILIES, JOBS, RESPONSIBILITIES excuse or we will all be battered and deep fried. What’s it going to take before you lose the big buts? Total loss of all jobs? Tired of hearing about it. If we do not as conservatives run and displace some of these commies we get exactly what we deserve. So STFU.
[Umm… and what do conspiracy theories about Obama being born in Kenya have to do with the economy? This is exactly what I’m talking about. If we make a big deal about every little thing, no one is going to listen when we make a big deal about big things. It’ll just be, “There goes those silly partisan right-wingers again, mindlessly opposing everything about Obama.” And they’d be partly right. -Ed.]
Soooooo, are you saying you don’t give a rat’s ass, or you do?
So if we’re not going to worry about the Presidential qualifications stated in the Constitution, then let’s also not worry when Liberals try to attack the First Amendment with “Fairness Doctrine” – and let’s not worry about the Second Amendment either when they try to ban guns. When this happens Frank you have no right to complain – you’ve already just trashed it yourself.
[For the millionth time, shouting “Slippery slope” over and over is not an argument. “If we don’t crack down on kids sticking gum to the bottom of desk, soon they’ll be serial killers and we’ll just have our selves to blame!” Rational people are able to single out something as being unimportant without it affecting other things that are vaguely related. We have a tradition of freedom of speech and gun right in this country. We don’t have a ingrained tradition of eschewing Representatives younger than twenty-five. It may be in the same document as the other rights, but it’s still asinine. -Ed.]
Frank, I love you man but you are wrong. The reason the U.S.of A. is heading for the crapper is because we no longer recognize we are a nation of laws. We have legislating from the bench, have a living document and people who don’t give a rat’s ass. Even without the slippery slope, if there be one, there are only three requirements to hold the highest office in the land and all three need to be met. If there is nothing for the ONE to hide, why spend nearly a million to hide it? I’m so tired when repugs use the label conservative, when they are too frickin busy to conserve the rule of law, written by men smarter than anyone living today.
[He spent a million to hide it? Really? Please link to that.
Anyway, the three things (I thought there was two — age and natural citizen) may be stark Constitutional rules, but they’re still asinine and it make people rules weenies to be screaming about it after someone was willingly elected by the American people. -Ed.]
3rd rule was you have to live here 14 years (or maybe 16).
If you read the writings of the Founders, you”ll soon realize that all of the “asinine” little rules they placed in the Constitution were put there for a reason. They didn’t “pull them out of their asses”. All were carefully considered, revised, and considered again before being put down. This particular rule, while perhaps seemingly random, HAS PURPOSE. A younger individual has yet to define themselves as a person. Perhaps they have a job, marriage, and even children, but no real track record, no life experience, merely knowledge they may or may not have taken to heart. This example, of course, has exceptions, but in general is correct. The Constitution has worked well so far, and to ignore ANY part is to lose interest in protecting ALL of it! This is not the “slippery slope argument” you apparently ditest so much, it is simple common sense. BTW, in your defense Frank, the argument about Obamas birth location really is asinine. Particularly because his mother was obviously an american citizen so he could have been born on mars and still fall under the written requirements.
[“The Constitution has worked well so far, and to ignore ANY part is to lose interest in protecting ALL of it!” Just because you make an assertion with caps, doesn’t make it true. Somehow our society has survived three Senators who were younger than thirty. Also, if the Founding Fathers didn’t pull the number out of their asses, show we the mathematical equation that led to 25, 30, and 35 as the ages for Representatives, Senators, and the President. BTW, I’m not arguing never to enforce them, but if someone already had gone through the scrutiny of an election, I don’t think we’d help our Republic by overturning the election results because the guy is a few months shy of the right age. Furthermore, Obama was elected, anyone with authority thinks he meets the requirements with what he’s shown, so I agree with you it’s a non-issue and we don’t help the Constitution or anyone trying to make it one. -Ed.]
Guys,
The simple fact of the matter is that The One WAS born in Hawaii. There are articles in the newspaper which you can find (I’m too lazy to find them myself – it’s snowing and I like to watch it fall) which announce the birth and everything. The guy was born in the USA. Deal with it.
I am fairly certain that if the Democrats nominated Gerhard Schroder, the German, we would be all up in arms about it and Frank would be leading the charge. But Barry is an American – plain and simple.
The bit about having an Indonesian passport is, I’ll admit, a bit more troublesome, but the fact is that the guy is an American now. He won the election. Now it’s his job to implement his agenda and ours to undermine that agenda. And we ain’t gonna do that by whining about his birth certificate.
And there’s an Omam in Kenya with documents saying Obama was born there.
Who do we believe? Some guy thousands of miles away in Hawaii, or some guy thousands of miles away in Kenya?
From The Federalist Papers No. 62
“The qualifications proposed for senators, as distinguished from those of representatives, consist in a more advanced age and a longer period of citizenship. A senator must be thirty years of age at least; as a representative must be twenty-five. And the former must have been a citizen nine years; as seven years are required for the latter. The propriety of these distinctions is explained by the nature of the senatorial trust, which, requiring greater extent of information and tability of character, requires at the same time that the senator should have reached a period of life most likely to supply these advantages; and which, participating immediately in transactions with foreign nations, ought to be exercised by none who are not thoroughly weaned from the prepossessions and habits incident to foreign birth and education. The term of nine years appears to be a prudent mediocrity between a total exclusion of adopted citizens, whose merits and talents may claim a share in the public confidence, and an indiscriminate and hasty admission of them, which might create a channel for foreign influence on the national councils.
I apologize for the double post, but I was a bit button happy and didn’t explain the relavence of the quoted material. This is, of course, from the Fedalist, attributed to either Alexander Hamilton or James Madison depending on who you ask. It’s clear here that they had very specific reasons for the numbers used in determining eligibility for various different public offices. No, there is no mathmatical formula, but that doesn’t mean that the numbers are pulled out of thier asses either. I agree that this is a moot point, but I’m a conservative and proud of the fact that my ideology is based on gathering all the data that I can. I believe the framework of our country was created by men of both intelligence and righteousness. It’s hard for me to discount any of what they set in place mearly because I don’t understand their motivation. Therefore, I strive to educate myself on that motivation. No, the country didn’t fall apart by having 3 previous senators who were below the legal age limit. But it hasn’t fallen apart due to numerous impositions on our right to bear arms either. That doesn’t make it ok.
Frank,
I am going to have to agree with the rule of law people. As to BO, from the information I have seen, he is qualified, but if he is found to not be qualified(according to the three qualifications) he should not serve. It wouldn’t matter if he was elected with 95 percent, if not qualified, then change the qualifications before you run. As to Chelsea, she is not qualified – so don’t even put her name out there(I know you didn’t start it). As to the age limits, the number may have been pulled out of their hind areas, but the reason for the age limits is valid.( I think the age for president should be raised to 40)
As to the slippery slope I couldn’t disagree with you more. The slippery slope is what got us as close to fascism as we are. The dems (and some repubs) are willing to take small steps toward fascism every chance they get so people will accept their little step because it is not that bad. yet, when you look at where we are at now, we slid quite a ways. As to you argument that someone putting gum under their desk will become a murderer is not arguing slippery slope – it is arguing the exact opposite – big jumps. I believe that we need to respect authority. The loss of that respect is the start of the slide. I could make the same argument for illegal immigration, our current justice system etc.
Have a very merry Christmas all (are we still allowed to say that in public?)
Soo Frank, hows your back from being raked over the coals with this one? I agree with you taht whining about petty things is a waste of time. I am totally sure that soros would not have selected that one to be our president if there was no good way of making sure he was eligible. that one spent over a half a billion dollars on the presidency, no way he could be stopped on a technicality.
We need to spend our energy making sure this leftist does not get everything he wants. And the embarrassments reid and pelousy need to be kept at bay. teddy schumer dubin clinton frankenstien are not bright enough to be more than mere mouthpieces for soros, waxman, reid, and fiendstein are the ones to watch out for.
Frank, while nitpicking Obama’s birth status may or may not be fruitful (and I tend to agree that it is not) the difference is the election process. Obama was on the brightest stage for a couple years, and despite MSM jock-carrying, anybody who cared to learn about Obama could figure out whether he was worth voting for. Many people decided he was. So, the rest of us just have to live with it. I, for one, was so virulently against Obama from the start, that the birth cert issue was really just another drop in the bucket.
Chelsea, though, would not be going through an election process. In your own words “In an appointment where it’s not the American people making the choice, I think the qualifications are more important.” Indeed. This is worth getting pissy over. Nepotists, Dynasts, call them what you will – the advantage of incumbency, however brief before the next election, is too great. It must not be bestown upon anyone who is literally not qualified.
[My guess is that Chelsea Clinton would not survive a Constitutional challenge (though I doubt anyone is seriously considering her). There are plenty of idiotic choices who are Constitutional choices, and there isn’t much Republican can do about it in New York. -Ed.]
Who ya gonna believe? Frank J or Obama’s grandmother? She says she was there at the birth in Kenya. Grandmothers tend to remember things like that. At least she was there. Frank J. was probably off playing with his wii. What does he know?
BO may get elected. He may occupy the White House. But he is not my president until he proves his birthplace. Everything he signs as president is a forgery. Every speech he makes is as a fraud.
No matter how many times Frank J rolls over Obama is still a fraud. A pig is still a pig no matter how you camouflage it.
Frank, let me be clear, I understand what your saying. There are bigger battles to be fought, and we should place our resources where they’ll do the most good. I agree. I’m not trying to say that this is a battle worth fighting. As I stated before, I believe Obama does meet the constitutional qualifications required. Obama was elected, and it’s clear that a majority of Americans didn’t care about his qualifications anyway. I’m only trying to point out that as conservatives, we can’t afford to compromise or worse, concede, any of our beliefs because of expediency. I think that’s what got us John McCain, and what will prevent the Republican party from making it’s way back up on top. Our opponents don’t compromise, only we do. That’s why we lose. And our biggest belief is in the rule of law in general and the Constitution in particular. On a lighter side, I’ve been reading IMAO for a couple of years and love it! I never felt pushed into commenting , however, and it’s unfortunate that my first postings on your great site had to be a disagreement!
[No problem. I’m here to be disagreeable. Glad to have you! -Ed.]
Ed,
shariah law or the Eucharist? just splitting hairs? honor killings are right around the corner. and you’re clinging to a rat’s ass.
good luck with that
[? -Ed.]
OK, you’ve convinced me that we’re going to end up with an idiot in Hillary’s seat. No doubt a similar result coming up in Illinois. Given all that, can we at least lobby for a really-hot-barely-old-enough-to-satisfy-the-Constitution female in each of those seats? You know, something to make C-SPAN a little more watchable?
“really, any idiot can be a Senator”
Every day just provides more evidence that this is a proven fact.
Honor killings just around the corner? That argument has a lot of credibility “let Obama slide and tomorrow we’ll all be muslims”? Is that your thesis Jake ace?
With all of the heat being generated by the obama derangement syndrome crowd you’d think some light would have crept in. All I’ve see is a lot of ad hominem, a lot of internet rumor, and NO HARD FACT.
What are the facts? Again and again and again — what are the facts? Shun wishful thinking, ignore divine revelation, forget what “the stars foretell,” avoid opinion, care not what the neighbors think, never mind the unguessable “verdict of history” — what are the facts, and to how many decimal places? You pilot always into an unknown future; facts are your single clue. Get the facts!
-The Notebooks of Lazarus Long
Sorry I’ve been telling my kids that since they were old enough to pretend to listen
and another thing:
Stupidity cannot be cured with money, or through education, or by legislation. Stupidity is not a sin, the victim can’t help being stupid. But stupidity is the only universal capital crime; the sentence is death, there is no appeal, and execution is carried out automatically and without pity.
-The Notebooks of Lazarus Long
That one they finally figured out I was right about
The problem here is that this guy is ineligible for sooo many reasons that’s it’s hard to find a place to start. However, the facts are that he has already broken our laws, commited treason and perjury in dozens of examples and it’s not too late to stop him. He is a Bilderberger and by showing them the power of the Constitution and our will to follow it, maybe we can save ourselves. Please write to your senators and representatives. They are present when the electoral college votes are read and can object and call his eligibility into question. For my fellow red blooded Americans out there, go here http://www.oilforimmigration.org/facts/ and try as many things on the list of things we can still do as you can. God Bless America; land of the Free, home of the Brave.
Obama would not survive a Constitutional challenge.
Here’s the big stink, all they have to do is reveal the birth certificate in the vault. That’s it, then it’s over. The fact that he won’t is what has some people, including myself, worried.
Either we are a country governed by the rule of law or we are not. Either we believe in and follow the Constitution or we don’t.
This whole argument is like the mess concerning the 10 commandments. People, even most “Christians” don’t want to hear about the 10 commandments. Really how last millennium is that? You mean you’re going to obey some stupid laws that some guy claims were written by some God guy thousands of years ago? How does that fit in with my “do whatever feels good” philosophy? What about freedom? I’m free to do whatever I want and nobody can tell ME what to do.
Same argument, either you do what’s right for something or you don’t. Either you stand for something or you bend over because here it comes again.
My virgin eyes! I can’t believe Seanmahair just used BOHICA. I’m giggling like an idiot.
Frank – I am no low-life lawyer, but I think the slippery slope argument holds more water in the prevaricating courts than common sense. Lawyers even give it a snooty term to disguise its insidious nature – “precedent”. Once some activist judge makes an idiotic ruling, you can be sure the slugs will use it as a spring board to attack what you call the “important” parts of our constitution.
OK, the BHO birth certificate thing is a waste of time (but you did bring it up). However, if the document gets into a court and he was not born in the USA, then looking the other way would be a dangerous precedent. The Left does not practice common sense or decency. I am not saying we should sink to their level and act like amoral monkeys. I am saying we should not project our own attributes on others. And we should mock them repeatedly.
Merry Christmas!
Whether you guys have looked for it or not there is sufficient reason to believe that Obama was not born in the U.S. I’ve linked to one of many articles that talk about it a little, but there are many more. Many conservatives, including people like Michelle Malkin whom I respect, have come out and bashed us as Obama Derangement Syndrome victims, but that doesn’t mean there isn’t something to this. The primary reason that Michelle, David Horowitz, FrankJ, et al don’t want to go along with this line of thinking is because they don’t want to turn into the Left who did this for the entire 8 years of the Bush administration. That’s why FrankJ calls us weenies. There is a mighty difference though. There is evidence in this case. Evidence suggesting that he isn’t qualified, and there is evidence that would prove he is. It’s easily corrected by just releasing his real birth certificate, the so called “long” form that is accepted by Hawaii for identification. That’s it. We will go away, but since he’s decided to hire three law firms to the tune of millions of dollars to fight this instead that would lead (in addition to the myriad other reasons) any logical and rational person to believe that there must be something to this.
Your argument about upholding the 3/5s person part of the Constitution is moot. That has been amended, legally. Your argument about the speed limit is, likewise, moot. It is not in the Constitution. It is also not in any State’s constitution. I would, and often do, argue that speed limits are, in fact, un-Constitutional, upheld by a private security force (as there is no provision in the Constitution or State constitutions for the creation of a police force, they are hired by cities as private contractors). Every tenet of the Constitution has been broken, from Freedom of Speech, Right to Bear Arms, unlawful search and seizures to every single power that was supposed to be “reserved to the States respectively, or to the people.” This is but one more step down a long slippery slope, and whether or not you think it’s a “technicality” it was placed there just for this occasion, to stop people like Obama from being elected no matter how large and vehement a majority wants him. He was, likely, born on foreign soil and was definitely, at times, raised on foreign soil. He holds that the Constitution is “fundamentally flawed”. No doubt the requirement of “natural born” is one of its flaws, and you agree with him FrankJ. I leave you with a quote:
“What happened was the gradual habituation of the people, little by little, to be governed by surprise, to receiving decisions deliberated in secret… To live in the process is absolutely not to notice it — please try to believe me — unless one has a much greater degree of political awareness, acuity, than most of us ever had occasion to develop. Each step was so small, so inconsequential, so well explained or, on occasion, regretted. Believe me this is true. Each act, each occasion is worse than the last, but only a little worse. You wait for the next and the next. You wait for one shocking occasion, thinking that others, when such a shock comes, will join you in resisting somehow. Suddenly it all comes down, all at once. You see what you are, what you have done, or, more accurately, what you haven’t done (for that was all that was required of most of us: that we did nothing) …You remember everything now, and your heart breaks. Too late. You are compromised beyond repair. – German professor after World War II describing the rise of Nazism to a journalist
The constitution says nothing about presidential candidates producing a birth certificate. In fact widespread use of the things is a relatively new phenomenon. Is my father not a natural born citizen? Hell there is conflicting evidence about his birth date because he was born in the back bedroom of a small house in Thomaston Ga. with the nearest hospital a half a day away.
Was anybody checking Thomas Jefferson’s birth certificate?
And just exactly what do the ten commandments have to do with anything? Contrary to what the rabid Turbo-Christian right believe, our system of laws is not based on it. The legal system finds it base in Roman code law, modified by the english, also known as English Common Law.
I seem to recall the Apostle Paul saying something about me not having to become a Jew to be a Christian.
The Constitution doesn’t have to say “birth certificate” but it does say the guy has to be a natural born citizen and how else, in 2008, can we confirm a person’s birth without the modern means? We looked at the Constitution, we don’t need his birth certificate to know he is not eligible. No one is denying his father was a British citizen at the time of his birth, he has dual citizenship, dual loyalty, poof, name withdrawn. Nancy Pelosi signed his eligibilty form. Please go read why his birth certificate is the least of our problems with his citizenship. But the fact remains when people questioned McCain he handed over everything people asked for so people could decide if he was eligible. Obama instead sealed not just his records in Hawaii, but his college records which would have shown his citizenship. The guy is an illegal alien. He needs to be arrested. Please read about exactly how slimy he is. http://www.oilforimmigration.org/facts/
Also, the point about the Ten Commandments, I think, is saying that it’s not only historically significant but still very applicable in modern times, and is, indeed, timeless. The Ten Commandments are every bit as revelant to Christians now as they have ever been. And at a time when some would argue that we really need to reemphasize the importance of those rules, other people are trying to push those moralistic guidelines aside for self-gratification. So it is an excellent parallel as the Constitution is also historically significant, HIGHLY applicable in modern times, and naturally, timeless.
Best said == #2 is correct. Gotta sweat the details, try everything.
Even a false start is worthwhile. First, because it creates a continuing cloud over efforts to move the country left.
Second, and just as important, it gives conservatives a balancing act.
Remember, normal humans bargain in good faith. You ask for 40, the other guy says “60” and you settle somewhere around 50.
But the far left just keeps screaming “100! 100! 100!” at the top of their lungs. Then the so-called “moderate” Democrat smiles and say “See what we have to deal with?” waits to get his 80% and call it a “compromise.”
So let the troops push for 0 every time to balance, and maybe we’ll hold’em to 50%.
Remember too, the Hippocratic dictum “First do no harm.” Anything we do to stop certain irreversible steps like socialized medicine is a good thing. Preventing permanent harm is a worthy goal, even if nothing else gets done.
There are rat’s asses, and then there are RAT’S asses. First it’s 56mph, then 58, then 60, then 62, then 66, then 70… pretty soon someone’s driving a 100. See, it’s the road you walk, and with then Law, and especially the courts, it’s all about percedent. The “Rule” of law is set by precedent. Either you are or you aren’t. That’s the real concern here. Ask any art student how many shades of grey there are. Far too many to set limits with. It shouldn’t be a big deal, it really shouldn’t. It shouldn’t even be questioned. It should be an automatic NO.
So you’ve never met a Seventh Day Adventist?
But seriously, there are many Christians that keep holy “The Lord’s Day” and the fact that you haven’t met any might say more about your circle of friends than about the legitimacy of the 10 Commandments.
[Slippery slope arguments are intellectually lazy. I already mentioned how a lax attitude on speed limits doesn’t lead to allowing murder. Please explain exactly how allowing a twenty-nine year old to be Senator could lead to confiscation of guns.
The Constitution wasn’t written by gods, it was written by men. I won’t fight to defend the 3/5th a person clause, so I already pick and choose. If you don’t ever want to use your common sense to figure when a rule is really important and when it isn’t, you will make a good beauracrat. -Ed.]
I didn’t say that allowing a 29 year old to take the seat would lead to Guns being taken. I stated that we take it as a whole or as nothing. My point being made by comparing your lax attitude toward qualifications for the holding of an office to the same attitude held by the libtards that will screech at the slightest 1st or 4th violation, but crap all over the 2nd. I wasn’t saying Chelsea as a Senator would leads to Gun Grabbing. Though, given her family and their leftist bent, it is not hard to imagine her pushing for the whittling of 2A protections. And the 3/5 th’s argument is intellectually dishonest as it was corrected by an amendment. The WHOLE, which means the articles and all amendments that changed details of the Articles and prior Amendments. And making the jump from speeding tickets to murder to try and bolster your defense of an apathetic position is a muckadoo move. You are better than that.
I am also aware the the Constitution wasn’t drafted by Gods but we base our government (in theory) on the document. Thus, we need to hold it as nigh unto sacred. If we disagree with something, ignoring it isn’t the answer. Amending it is. A true Conservative will be upset over ANY violation of a standing clause in the Constitution, or push for Amending the issue.
And please don’t try to counter point wit any clauses that have been counteracted by later Amendments.
you do not walk your talk, ed
obama is a muslim. maybe a closet muslim for now, but they already think they deserve to rule the world. that’s goodbye catholicism for you. and you don’t care.
Give me liberty or give me death. Where do we compromise that?
Pingback: Rat’s Asses in Limited Supply | Autumn People
Judith, very nicely stated. And along those lines we see lots of Obamites telling us where to stick our Constitution since they got tricked into voting for a person not eligible to run. It would seem like they are the sore losers. They were tricked and would rather burn everything we stand for rather than say, opps! There’s a book somewhere about Liberalism as a mental health disorder, I bet that book would sum up the Obamites pretty well.
Apparently I’ll never make a good conservative- can’t seem to make the corners on my tinfoil hat properly, You guys go on straining at gnats about how Obama isn’t a citizen. After you’ve completely lost credibility, who’s going to fight the real issues…
What a bunch of a$$holes
I hate to break it to you Jim boyo, but tin foil hats belong on the heads of those Kwaszy Kos Kids, as that is where they originated. The difference between most conservatives and most liberals is that conservatives actually believe there is a moral authority, liberals can’t believe anyone still believes in morals at all.
There are people who keep the Sabbath day (which ever one you like) holy. They are unfortunately in the minority. Most people say they believe but when push comes to shove, when the rubber hits the road, when they have to actually DO something or not do something …..well that’s another story.
The fact that the man that is going to represent our country, the head of our government, the commander in chief of the largest most powerful military in the history of the world is possibly a liar, thief and cheat is very important. If he’s willing to defraud the people of this nation just to become president what else is he willing to do to become “the ruler” of the rest of the world. After all his sycophants have assured us he is, “ready to rule.
If nothing else makes you scared that should frighten you to death.
#53 You are correct. You will never be a conservative if you can’t refrain from calling people a-holes during political debate. Ad Hominem – the bread and butter of libtards. Do yourself a favor, and buy yourself a thesaurus and etiquette guide for Christmas. See, you can insult someone without cursing.
I wanted to add that I have been enjoying the comments. This is the most intelligent group of responses I have seen on this topic. Many of you make some very good arguments, and made excellent points that I haven’t seen on any other page.
Okay this is actually a local low point in my life. I just got lectured in etiquette by a guy who uses “libtard” in a sentence. Frank’s basic point remains, and I’ll say it much more harshly than he will. Quit trying to save the world from the comfort and safety of your parents basements, stop watching for black helicopters, and worry about what matters. The whole “Obama isn’t a citizen” thing is nothing short of political pornography, meant to distract and to keep all of you good republicans in circular firing squad mode. As for myself, this has been a perfectly good waste of time. I think I’ll go find some real porn.
I’m sorry did I say life-I meant day. The whole heart attack/stent thing was a life low point.
“Find out just what people will submit to, and you have found out the exact amount of injustice and wrong which will be imposed upon them; and these will continue until they are resisted with either words or blows, or both. The limits of tyrants are prescribed by the endurance of those whom they oppress.” – Frederick Douglass
Looks like we have found the exact amount of injustice and wrong you guys are willing to have imposed upon you.
Here I’ll resubmit so #57 will make sense:
Okay this is actually a local low point in my life. I just got lectured in etiquette by a guy who uses “libtard” in a sentence. Frank’s basic point remains, and I’ll say it much more harshly than he will. Quit trying to save the world from the comfort and safety of your parents basements, stop watching for black helicopters, and worry about what matters. The whole “Obama isn’t a citizen” thing is nothing short of political p0rn0graphy, meant to distract and to keep all of you good republicans in circular firing squad mode. As for myself, this has been a perfectly good waste of time. I think I’ll go find some real p0rn.
Dang, you even said it more succinctly and you’re still wrong.
If he is NOT a citizen he CANNOT LEGALLY be president. It is the LAW. And while I understand that some people (liberals, democrats, enemy combatants ex-cetera, ex-cetera, ex-cetera) don’t feel the need to be bound by laws, commandments, contracts or sacred honor, most of us understand that civilizations cannot operate outside the bounds of law. “That my dear children” is anarchy, “and is frowned upon in most societies.”
For your edification I am a college educated, mother of 6, grandmother of 4, who works 40 hours a week to help support my family and pay my expanding taxes. While my computer is in the lower level of my home it resides in a family room which is used all day everyday but many and sundry. I’m sorry you’re struggling but you’re not the only one. My sweet spouse has been laid off for 6 months after 18 years of service to an industry destined for the garbage heap with little opportunity to ever work in his chosen field again. Things are tough all over.
That said the facts are the facts. Our king will not prove he is a citizen and should have been made to do so from the get go. In order for my son to join the military he had to provide a certified copy of his birth certificate, his wife and son had to provide them as well just to get ID cards. Somehow the requirements for the Commander In Chief, the person trusted with the “football”, the man with his hand on the button should be under the SAME requirements.
Or may-haps we do deserve a king, Great Britain done so well under them. Nothing like making the sacrifice of all of our military dead count for absolutely nothing.
I was wrong the actual low point of my day was when I ruined the cream of wheat
The low point of my day has been reading the low points of Jim’s life/day. I kee wondering why he bothers to keep coming back here when he’s made his point and is not willing to recognize that Obama is no one’s President. An illegal alien has come into your house illegally, is taking your money, and is threatening the very existance of everything your family has ever worked for, but the low point of Jim’s day is bad Cream of Wheat. mmmmk
I bet the highlight of Jim’s day is that he just saved a bunch of money on his car insurance.
“Quit trying to save the world from the comfort and safety of your parents basements”
Funny, I was trying to do it from Iraq. Where are you again, Jim?
Here paying for the trip for you-Your welcome
‘What a bunch of a$$holes’ = ‘Libtards’?
Well yeah, basically
The concept is depersonalizing your opponent making it seem that their not worth your time.
Not entirely proud of that one but I’m old, my time is short, my patience is thin.
My final question is this: If the Obama conspiracy theory is true why didn’t Hillary use it to destroy him early on?
Remember we’re talking about the worst politicians wife since Lady Macbeth
I think it’s because Obama was originally supposed to be her VP, so she didn’t say anything. Then I think he bought he silence with the position that she can’t take because it is against the Constitution. So she can’t say anything because then she can’t take her post as SoS. Right guys?
+r
Hi Jim,
I’ll play devil’s advocate. There are a few reasons I can think of why Hillary didn’t go after his birth certificate.
1. Ego. She thought it was her coronation.
2. She’s never read the constitution.
3. BHO might have hypnotized her, http://www.imao.us/index.php/author/harvey/.
4. She and BHO have been lovers since shortly after his keynote address at the 2004 Democratic National Convention.
🙂
Yes, thank you for sending me away from my family for 12-15 months to such a lovely place, and it’s for free mind you. It’s not like we’re doing anything over here. I’m actually becoming more and more convinced that you aren’t actually a conservative but really a liberal troll sent here to make us all crazy. Then again that ploy would require more intelligence then most liberals possess… Then I must reconsider your continual misuse of the words “your” and “their”. That points to liberal…
Continual? I misused their once, Geez I’m sorry. apparently that invalidates anything I have to say and worse yet makes me (gasp) a liberal. If the entire conservative movement from here on is going to consist of a bunch of people crooking their finger at someone and screaming “liberal” at someone every time they don’t agree with you. I don’t see much future in it.
Sorry Civil Engineer not English professor
Hillary and BHO lovers. Not an image I needed
Dave thank you for your service. I too am paying for your trip but I appreciate and value your willingness to put your life on the line daily and appreciate your families sacrifice.
Gabrielle good points all. (next time post an alert before saying something like Hitlery and BO and lovers in the same sentence, I just ate)
Jim, it is always interesting to see the mental gymnastics someone will go through to prove a point. No matter how you slice it, being a natural born citizen is still one of the requirements to be president. NO ONE, has proved he is or isn’t a citizen but producing a birth certificate that Obamalamadingdong is a citizen would quell that question immediately. If he is why did they not present a birth certificate instead of a birth report. My two daughters born in the Philippines to American parents (father in the military) have both a certificate (from the Philippines) and a report of birth abroad.
The only reason we are engaged in this argument is the unwillingness of the Obamanationites to produce a vault copy of his birth certificate. Why? What do they have to hide? If nothing just produce it and the controversy goes away.
Still they don’t and the question remains, why? That’s not conspiracy that’s common sense. I know it’s a hard concept for Liberals and Demoncrats but ……….
Yeah,yeah I know I’m just another stupid libtard and I’m not welcome in the secret club house.
My parting shot…
http://www.factcheck.org/elections-2008/born_in_the_usa.html
You know sometimes I really wonder. Was my logic hard to follow? Was I not patient? Did I not use small enough words?
I just don’t know how to say it any simpler. I’m not a conspiracy theorist. I am however unconvinced by the lack of facts and evidence that “his majesty” was really born here.
Produce the certificate and the controversy goes away. How hard is that, really? Seriously, am I the one with the lack of understanding here, because I don’t get it.
Oh and by the way I went to that site, and someone needs to explain to me how come my birth certificate from the Socialist Republic of Maryland 5 years earlier looks like someone used a typewriter on it and “His majesty’s” looks computer generated.
I’m sorry they don’t look the same and even in 1969 they didn’t have computers generating Birth certificates.
Not only that but the race of my parents was not noted as Caucasian but white and as a amateur genealogists I know that at that time a black persons race would have been Negro not African. Just saying.
That’s a great site and all, but whether or not the document they analyzed is real or not, it still isn’t the birth certificate. It is a certification of live birth which Hawaii, at the time at least, would give to someone born abroad up to a year later, and Hawaii won’t even take it for identification. If you had read the article I posted, it explains most of that and more. That’s not even mentioning the fact that Factcheck.org gets money from the Annenberg foundation which has had ties with Obama and also funded the Chicago Annenberg Challenge. Make of that what you will. Bottom line is that the Certification of Live Birth which Obama has produced is not valid (due to a changed document number which invalidates it) and is not the document required by Hawaii state law to prove citizenship. Again, this is not conspiracy, but fact. No one has produced what it would take to prove his citizenship. Just produce the document and we’ll stop. We aren’t liberals with BDS. You are all correct in that there are many policy reasons to oppose Obama, but it is a symptom of his lack of respect for this nation and its laws for him to flout them so brazenly. As I stated in a quote above, this isn’t a die-on-the-hill issue all on its own, but each of these issues that are just one more step must be fought.
I’ll go ahead and post it again:
http://www.americanthinker.com/2008/12/obama_derangement_syndrome.html
And this: http://www.americanthinker.com/2008/11/why_the_barack_obama_birth_cer.html
The constitution is crystal clear about personal qualifications for president, yet even some conservatives are prepared to look the other way for Obama. There is no coherent argument for ignoring the parts of the constitution you don’t like. The Editor’s rambling comments on my last post #16 are an example of the nonsense put up to support Obama being above the law.
Pingback: By Common Consent » James Dobson is my homeboy
It seems like business is still getting hit hard. Is anybody seeing an upswing in their respective niches? Health reform seems like a mess. I generate long term care insurance leads and annuity leads for the insurance industry, but volume has been terrible in the last two months. I am afraid the worst is yet to come, but maybe it is just my attitude.