Thanks, Ethel.

Tell me about it. I like to sleep in on the weekends, but it seems there's always a bunch of mormons in the trees right outside my window singing their heads off. I can rarely sleep past 8 am!

I don't don't know how often you get bothered by them in Florida but I've had to live with them since birth. Most of them don't bother me anymore. I don't go to church, drink beer, and go hunting for my 10% on the church lawn with a metal detector, they think I'm the anti-christ. Theres one who still comes around but he's learned to talk guns instead of religion (seems he's got an SKS he's pretty proud of), and he's facinated by my arsenal (Oops,) I mean my collection.

I've just been informed that what I referred to as "mormons" are actually called "sparrows".

Never mind, then.

I used to be a member of a smaller offshoot of the Mor(m)on Church. Then, one fine day, I realized that I enjoyed beer. Now I'm a godless heathen apostate. It's much more fun for me and, unlike the Mor(m)ons who woke you, I never bother anyone in their own home. Now, when they try to bug me, I refer them to the local bar, tell them that they should have a few beers and maybe get laid and they will be much happier.

Actually, they aren't such bad guys, but they do need to realize that the Book of Mormon is not the word of God but is a falsehood unleashed upon the world by a nineteenth century huckster. Also, they need to remember the more clearly inspired words of Benjamin Franklin, that "Beer is proof that God loves us, and wants us to be happy."

I HATE MORMONS. My wife and I moved to Heber, Utah, thinking how pretty it was. The damned Mormons tried to take our kids away from us and put them in a good Mormon home because we were "non Mormons". No kidding. I called the state attorney general about it. They actually had a special unit to deal with these type of small Mormon town problems, and they must have whooped some ass, 'cause the authorities backed way off.

My wife and I also worked in a retarded men's home in the region. All those rare, incest-caused, syndromes afflicted our clients. The town we lived in was so interbred, everyone had normal upper bodies, but real short, squat lower bodies. Brothers were having sex with sisters, and cousins frequently married.

Mormons showed me and mine what a black man in Mississippi must feel like. Thank God we were able to move to the "heathen" town of Park City, where all of us non Mormon Christians lived.

Here's some Mormon secrets. Maybe you can find a magic stone that will shut down those damned Mormons.

http://nowscape.com/mormon/mormcr1.htm

Wow, Bilbus, you realize that that is the kind of blind, vitriolic hatred, propaganda, and lies that the left does to conservatives in America?

You probably do, and are just trolling...

You can hate Mormons all you want, but I think that bashing and hating a church that does so much good in the world is a waste of your time and mental energy.

Having a Mormon is worse than having a dog (in that early-wakeage regard).

hln

Brandon and Cappy-

No, I'm not just trolling, and to call a religion with such a history of murder and perversion AS ITS BASIS a "church" is lucicrous. Even the Mormons from other areas of the country thought the Utah Mormons were whacko. Early Utah Mormons would dress up as Indians, raid passing wagon trains, kill, rape, and pillage, then blame the Indians and go kill, rape and pillage them. Look up "Kanab" on the net and be amazed.

The Mormon "Church" still takes Indian children from their homes on the reservation and places them in "good Mormon" homes hundreds of miles away from their folks, destroying their family ties and Indian heritage. Exchange students from Japan who I attended Utah Valley State College with were literally held as house slaves by some of these fine Mormon families, with the threat of their student visas being pulled if they didn't nanny the kids, clean the house, cook, and service the husband. I was liason for some of the Japanese exchange students...the school treated them like sh-t because they were "non Mormons". I verbally whooped ass with good Mormon administrators more than once in their defense.

Many Mormons from my area would go south once a year and, at a meeting town, do drugs, drink, f-ck, fight, and let out all that pent up wierdness. The big yearly binge.

Except for the early history murders, this is all first hand. No joke. It happened to me and my friends.

Mormons think us non-believers are Satan driven, and teach that Christian preachers are "Satan's hirelings".

No wonder Frank hates Mormons. He must've picked up that wierd vibe behind their wake-up tactics.

I don't hate Mormons. I just don't like people ringing my doorbell and trying to sell me religion.

Bilbus, I think you need to look up 'trolling' in an internet dictionary...

And Frank, we know you don't hate mormons...you have a link to a mormon blog in your blogroll!...or you're just lazy ;-)

Please tell us what IMAO means or stands for.

Mormons rule the world by proxy. they get others to fight and die for them... We as vapid mormon haters have achieved nothing in 50 years of spreading dirty rumors about mormons...

What the freak is an "internet dictionary"? Is it a dictionary found on the internet, like an e-book or something?

From what I found out, IMAO stand for "In My Aryan Opinion". I read that on the "internet dictionary".

You should have known that bringing up the subject of Mormons would cause trolls to come out, like pus oozing from a boil after it's been lanced.

Here are some common-sense recommendations:
1. If you want to know more about the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day saints (hereafter the LDS Church), ask a Mormon.
2. You can safely ignore the tons of anti-Mormon propaganda that has been ground out since the days of Joseph Smith, Jr. They're written by hireling preachers who feel that their livelihoods and power are threatened by a church that believes in an unpaid clergy, or by disenchanted members with an axe to grind. Neither of them can be counted on to provide unbiased testimony.
3. When the LDS Church was founded, many people thought its members were subversives for sending missionaries to the Indian tribes and telling them that they were members of the House of Israel with a glorious future ahead of them. When they moved to Utah, they usually got along quite well with the Native Americans who already lived there. Even though Brigham Young had sworn off tobacco, he smoked the peace pipe with their chiefs to convince them that he wanted to avoid fighting between his people and theirs.
4. Mormons consider it against their religion to force anyone to join the LDS Church. Even children wait until they're 8 years old before being baptized, so that they can make a conscious choice between right and wrong. Every so often members are warned to use gentle persuasion and avoid exercising "unrighteous dominion."
5. Conversions to the LDS Church are based on individual testimonies. Mormons have a standing challenge to everyone else to test any point of doctrine through study & prayer, and receive a witness of the Sprit that what the church teaches is true.
6. Last I heard, the LDS Church is the 5th largest in the USA, so you have the potential of offending a lot of readers by bringing out the religious trolls.
7. The Indian Placement Program was spearheaded by the late Spencer W. Kimball, 12th president of the LDS Church. My sources tell me the Navajos and others loved him because he did more for Native Americans than most white people.
8. The Mormons take the Bible more literally than other Christian churches. They have over 60,000 missionaries to "preach the gospel to every creature" and teach that the scriptures are not subject to private interpretation.
9. When Abraham Lincoln was asked what was to be done about the "Mormon problem," he adopted the Gamaliel-like position that enlightened for its time: "I propose to let them alone." If the LDS Church is dispensing false doctrine, it will eventually join the bleached bones of false churches that fell by the wayside. But if what Mormons preach is of God, who are we to stand in the way?
10. It takes greater faith to believe that there is a power greater than God that sealed up the heavens, than to embrace the concept that the Father and Son can talk to anyone they please and raise up latter-day prophets. The 450 priests of Baal had exceeding faith, but it was misplaced, and didn't save them during their confrontation with Elijah.
11. How do I know these things? I have been a member of the LDS Church since 1976, and put it to the test ever since. It has survived my intensive scrutiny, and I am proud to say that I have a testimony that it is true. I know from personal observation that its members are not perfect, but if any of us were, we would have been translated to heaven already.
12. Frank, too bad you didn't let those missionaries in - you could have been one of us!
13. I will not engage in any ad hominem attacks, but I will close with the following observation: it's a waste of time to engage in Bible-bashing with anyone who's been brainwashed by anti-Mormon propaganda. It's like arguing with Idiotarians, no matter how many times you refute their lies with facts, no matter how often the scriptures open to the right pages, they will either change the subject or attack your character. This is supposed to elevate any hearers into an increase of love and holiness (ha, that will never happen) and make their religion more attractive to the impartial bystander. They say you can't get something for nothing, but people will try, both in the religious and political spheres.

There! This satisfies my insistence on equal time to refute the anti-Mormon propaganda that your readers have been subjected to so far.

I'm with Bloodthirsty Warmonger.
rock on, Bloodthirsty Warmonger.

Hooah Warmonger

Wow, Bloodthirsty, you're even more pissed off at me than I am at Mormons. Your diatribe is, in it's own way, more anti-me than I am anti-Mormon, and you backed your anti-me hate speech (as well as your eloquent understanding of internet slang re: trolling) with a lot of love at the end, something I failed to do. And you did all this without knowing me from Adam! Congrats.

You're cool, and I accept you, one of us, gooble gobble, gooble gobble.

Now I love all Mormons. I am a regular freaking Mormon lover.

and all over the world, mormons breath a giant sigh of relief.

And A1O3 voyeuristically gets his jollies by entering into somebody elses e-world. Bet you used to stand by at the school fights and cheer on whoever was winning at the time, then brag about the fight afterwards (never having fought yourself). Bet my Mom can beat up your Mom, cootie head.

yarr.. I've been shut down, I'll log off now.

warmonger wasnt giving a hate speach, he was explaining some of the things we believe that the rest of you misunderstand and just believe cuz your hippie anti-oneandonlytruechurch friends said so. We dont bash your religion, so why do you bash ours? oh please oh please forgive us for living by our standards and high morals, and taking care of our bodies, and for not going off, getting drunk, making a fool of yourself, and getting beat by sober people. oh, and bilbus, we dont inbreed, it is completly against our religion. they must have been part of one of those polygamist inbreeder churchs that we dont endorse in anyway at all that vigilius was part of, who teach false docterine. As i read through this, it was obvious that all of the anti-mormon rumers are completly false. warmonger, your a stud man.

Advertisement in Summit County Newspaper

Two bedroom apartment for rent. LDS only.

Hey, hooyah11, do you have a "recommend"? I couldn't get one, because my Protestant pastor was Satan's hireling.

Rumors? No, it happened to me and mine. No propaganda, just the facts.

Funny how you all get so pissed, tell each other it's all lies, and think you change reality by consensus.

While I think Bilbus is trolling, keep in mind that he might have encountered pockets of polygynists or some such.

Also, in Utah, Mormonism is the dominant religion. Meaning that the nutjobs will tend to be Mormon as well.

The LDS-only thing I can see - a belief that non-Mormons will tend to be poor tenants. Prejudicial, but arguably somewhat justified.

You can't get a "temple recommend" from a non-Mormon minister. That "Satan's Hirling" bit is an exxageration of a distortion of LDS doctrine.

There _are_ Mormons in Utah who live sinful lives under a tattered cloak of hypocracy. I say tattered because it's usually an open secret.

As for the Mountain Meadows Massacre, it was a single incident, the individuals responsible were ultimately excommunicated, and up until the point where they were actually executing their prisoners it was the right thing to do.

-Albert

yeah i think this is a little bit of cross cultural misunderstanding and mistrust. the landlord and bilbus both don't know each other and they don't trust each other. one of those 'ya don't like what ya don't understand' type things.

during my service work in west ghana i saw that type of thing a lot between different tribes, especially with old ladies and young men. it's kind of childish in my opinion, you both need to grow up a little.

ps. please don't call me a cootie-head bilbus

Alright already, I repent! Mea Culpa...

Kojo, the fact that you are a cootie-head is just a little bit of West Ghanese cross-cultural misunderstanding. And the only reason I'll grow up is because I want to, not because you told me to.

Morte La France!!!

at last we can agree on something,

morte la france!

ps. but i still think you have dork-breath

How did you successfully deal with your dork-breath? I'd really like to know.

Hey, want to get on a cool newspaper chat room where me and a few other right wing reactionaries are torquing 'em up?

http://www.nj.com/forums/salem/

This is my local paper in Salem County, New Jersey, south of exit one on the Turnpike. The liberal left down here are s-o-o-o-o outnumbered by our pickup truck, chaw chewin', Bambi killin' rednecks it's not funny, but they all show up on this sight.

Still growing,

etc., etc.

The Mountain Meadows Massacre is a fascinating piece of South Utahn history, and needs be seriously studied by anyone who cares anything about Buchanan's presidency, Bang'em - er, Brigham Young's leadership, the settlement of the intermountain West, and so on. Americans really need to start learning about the "first 9/11" of 1857.

"As for the Mountain Meadows Massacre, it was a single incident, the individuals responsible were ultimately excommunicated, and up until the point where they were actually executing their prisoners it was the right thing to do."

Well that is fascinating too.

A single incident? Let's talk about the loss of John Wesley Powell's expedition to the Grand Canyon. Y'all know that the Grand Canyon carves the northwest corner off Arizona, right? Ever wonder what goes on on the other side of that Canyon? Look up "Colorado City" or "Uncle Rulon" on the web some time. Anyway it was just as bad back in 1869. American explorers go in, they don't come out, Indians (Shivwits in this case) take the blame. Yet Powell's watch ends up being sighted on a good Mormoni in southern Utah. Hmm.

Let's also talk about Blood Atonement (Doctine & Covenants 132) and the Mormon Reformation in 1857, in which Bring'em - oops, Brigham - decided that ol' Joe Smith ought to be taken seriously as a "Prophet", and sent his most brutal lackeys (Apostle George A Smith, for one) down to S. Utah to spread the, uh, Gospel that the sin of not buying into this humbug was worthy of death. Many *Mormons* died in this Inquisition.

Oh, but we need to be talking about Mountain Meadows. Here's a salutary quote from Frig'em Young: "If the US send their army here and war commences, travel must stop; your trains must not cross this continent back and forth. To accomplish this I need say only a word to the Lamanites, for the Indians will use them up unless I continually strive to contain them". That was August 1857. And in September "Indians" attack a wagon train. Truly Brigham was a prophet of the Lord God!

Then there was the Dukes train that traced the doomed Fancher train along that route. The Mormons managed not to kill them, but they looted the party blind. Oops, I forgot, the Mountain Meadows was an isolated incident. There was a war going on and these civilians were... uh... they were hoarding US supplies, that's it.

And exactly how was it the "right thing" to be shooting civilians who were just trying to get to California. DON't tell us they were insulting the locals because that's LONG been shown a Mormon hoax, invented after the fact to justify this horrendous crime.

"Excommunicated": Hah! John Lee was the only one executed. Haight, Higbee, Dame et al got re-communicated a few years after their excommunication. Apostle Smith, and the smaller fry like Nephi Johnson and such didn't get excommunicated at all. Some sins may be worthy of blood atonement, but obviously not the murder of gentile women and children because they don't really count.

Go read "Blood of the Prophets" by Will Bagley and get a clue. Run down some of the footnotes while you are about it.

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"Vengeance is mine, I will repay, saith the Lord"

yo bilbus-
i checked out that discussion group, and it looks like you got things pretty much under control. i liked the stuff you guys wrote on abortion.

and david ross, does a mormon showing up with a watch prove that mormons did it? you seem to insinuate that, but i think indians traded stuff from time to time. but then i'm not the history genius you try to sound like so...

BTW i was at the mountain meadows monument a little while ago, those bloodthirsty mormons and the families of those in the wagon train built it. it's pretty nice, you should check it out. they've come to terms and understand one another. it was a more complicated event than you made it sound, so yeah, i agree with you, everyone should study it if they are interested. but don't take my word for it(or some anti-mormon's) check it out for yourself.

Here's what blood atonement boils down to:

If you do something _really_ bad, then you confess - voluntarily - to the authorities and accept whatever penalty they decide on. None of this 'I done found JAY-ZUS, so let me live!' crap. If they sentence you to death, you don't appeal.

Note: 'Really bad' means stuff like child molestation, rape, shedding innocent blood, etc.

Now, do _not_ try to claim that the harrassment was a hoax. A portion of the group was affiliated with the mob that assassinated Joseph, and while _much_ of the claimed provocations were exaggerated and/or made up, the fact remains that the group poisoned a well, leading to the death of several cattle, and in the process of disposing of the dead cattle, one man died because he handled the contaminated bodies.

That said, the guy who lead the attack rounded up every hearsay rumor he could to try to save his skin.

By the way, the Indians _hated_ most of the white settlers that came through. Not surprising, either, since the whites pretty much despised and cheated them at every opportunity.

The Mormons, OTOH, respected them and treated them honestly.

Yeah, Brigham knew he could say a word and the Indians would rise up against wagon trains.

Now, think about this:

The Mormons had interior supply.
They had the natives on their side.
They had forts.
They had superior organization.
They had a strong militia.
The terrain favored defensive fighting.
They knew, from past experience, that the US government would gladly murder them and rape their women.

If Brigham had wanted a war, he could have had one easily. And what with the troubles in the South, I don't think the USA would have had the resources to dislodge the Mormons from Utah.

Now, here's what the attackers should have done: captured everyone, disarmed the Missourians, kept them captive, and let everyone else go. Maybe ship the Missourians back to the states with nothing but the clothes on their backs, or something.

-Albert

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Anybody that thinks that mormons are hateful, murderous, incestful, pompous people are just plain arrogant. (this means you Bilbus) You are a jerk. Here you are saying how great you and your wife are, and how horrible every single mormon in the whole entire world is. I have a question for you. Is every single non-mormon person a good person? You are sitting here and saying that all mormons are bad. I know that some mormons are frickin stuck up and rude, i know of some mormons who have done things wrong. Look at the catholic church though. how many priests got caught abusing little kids? I'm not saying that the whole church is bad because it's obvious that it is not. Second of all you are an idiot, and i don't like you. How can you call a mentally handicap or a physically challenged person a retard, you jerk. I think that you need to get a life, and quit being so narrowminded.