I find it useful to mix good arguements with well placed logical fallacies when the other person isn't being cooperative. For example: "I'm sure you would agree with that part of my point because only a moron would disagree with that part and I know you're not a moron." Sure, I feel bad telling a lie about them not being a moron, but I figure it's ok. I mean, hey, they're a moron.

"DON'T compare the other person's views to Hitler. Hitler was a bad man, and no one likes being compared to him."

You always get a smile out of me Frank! Thanks, that was great

and I've become really good at drywall repair. :P

Speaking of seppuku...Last of the Samurai came out last night and i already bought it. that part with the ninjas always makes me think of frank, as i just started reading him when i saw the movie for the first time. great flick though...highly recomended.
Adam

Dumbass. i even screwed the name up. so sorry.
The Last Samurai.

"Don't kick the other person in the groin when he strays"....That's bad? Damn.

--"DON'T silently lower the other person in a slow dipping device into a pit full of ravenous monkeys..."

--Damn, Frank... that was a good one!

--The story you tipped us on the other day is still haunting me, too... you know they are getting ready for their big war on us anytime an actual news story has a line like: "...unusually fierce assaults from roving bands of monkeys this spring..."

--Anyone still not want to see the threat?? "ROVING BANDS OF MONKEYS"!!!

--...wow... did I digress, or what?? Sorry... nice post, Frank!

hmmmm.... Recently my mothers friend came in town and stayed with us. We began a topic on who would be voting for who. After I heard her say, I cant wait to vote for "Kerry", my hand seemed to move at lightning speed, and I bitch slapped her. Is this improper of me?

A man convinced against his will
Is of the same opinion still.

Therefore it behooves you to master brainwashing techniques:

http://answers.google.com/answers/main?cmd=threadview&id=180553

I totally and utterly disagree with your advice regarding arguments, Frank, and to be quite frank myself, if I expressed my dissent to your opinion in the way you prescribe, I would be quite hypocritical in so doing. So instead, I feel as though I would like to "punch [you] through the chest, pull out [your] heart, and show it to [you] before [you die]," because I feel as though I have been "run into a corner." So, since we've reached a stopping point (how can I inflict physical damage via the internet? Somebody work on a solution for that, please), I feel as though I must disagree to disagree (in keeping with my standards of honor) and leave it at that, thus bestowing on you a small measure of my vast store of mercy. Good day to you, sir.

I agree with your rules Frank, but I would like to point out the one caveat. You wrote: “Follow these rules and you should have some nice, friendly, intelligent discussions” What should we do if the person we are to have this proposed discussion is an confirmed idiot and therefore incapable of intelligent discussion?

Either way, if I ever encounter Michael Moore or Ted Rall on the street, there will be no discussions. I’ll simply punch them as hard as I can right in the face. That should make my point succinctly.

Is it okay to rip out someone's heart as long as we don't show it to them before they die?

I'm civil! I can compromise!

getting much debate mail lately, Frank?

I found a new way of arguing with liberals. I use emotion, and then back it up with logic. Such as: I feel so bad for those poor black kids that are trapped in bad schools, why would anyone want to deny them vouchers and doom them to a life of poverty? I know that if I was in their shoes, I would want the best education for my kid. I wouldn't want to be the person to look them in the eye and say, "your child doesn't matter".

Works like a charm, liberals can't argue against emotion. Plus, I don't have to lie and then I get to throw in facts like a good conservative :)

It's okay to rip out their heart and show it to them, but to make them watch as you take a bite out of it and then spit it on them is crossing a line somewhere (think at the spitting part.) You should wait for that until after they are dead, and do it only as an example to others - not out of spite. We are, after all, a civilized society, Miranda.

Yeah now lets get the other side to follow the same rules.

The other side is far to pathetic and puny to rip out anyone's heart. And just making the effort would be a challenge considering they would be figuratively and literally heartless by then anyway...

Democrats do all the don'ts, repubs do all the dos; however, democrats doing the don'ts make the republicans not want to do the dos but instead the don'ts and so forth...until some sort of rip in the space-time continuum happens.

But I digress.....oooh look something shiny

You make me laugh you funny man.

*Grin* I think I get this.

First, we explain to our liberal opponent how terrible it is that some little children need heart transplants while others have strong, healthy hearts! Then, maybe they'll yank
their own hearts out for us (unless Beo is right and they're too puny to even rip their own hearts out).

At any rate, if they don't rip their own out,
we'll lend a hand, and, in return for our labor,
we gain the right to bite and spit.

Hooray for enlightened civilization!

The only flaw in this liberal-donated-heart-transplant scenario is the assumption that liberals have hearts. Back to the drawing board folks.

Arguments are simpler down here in Alabama.

"He needed killin'"

"But war is baadddd, mannn"

*Click Click* "Come to think of it, you seem to be on my property..."

Excellent points regarding the care and treatement of Trolls, Trollops and Asshats, Frank.

It's always very important, etiquette-wise to go through as many ritualized and polite steps before bludgeoning your opponent into an oozing, seeping sack of lumpy guava jelly!

And yes, Beo.

It is of utmost importance to show your opponent his or her own bleeding pulsing heart, liver, or kidney in your hand before their essence slithers on to MoonBat Hell!

It is a supreme point of Honor. To do otherwise would be a terribly unforgivable Faux Pas.

frank is feeling very kind today, where's chomps? :)

and i'm going to second the question of what if the person you're arguing with is just an utter, screaming, barking moonbat? i'm all for civil discourse, it's a favorite hobby of mine, but at what point is it allowed to just give up and pimp slap the offending party?

just asking because i'm fairly certain i've been to that point several times, and generally just walk away, but it's so tempting...

L.C. used French words! Everybody get him!

(The sound of a thousand guns chambering rounds simultaneously echoes through the blogitorium...)

HAHA, made me think of that chili commercial. ("NEW YORK CITY?!" "Get a rope.")

French? Ha! We know what to do with French-like people. Give him a bike and some skis!

DO Avoid making personal attacks
DON'T push the ignorant pissant's fingers into the big box of 128's crayon sharpener

Hmm...I see Glen has linked to you. I would add another line since he's reading this

DON'T take one of the other person's puppies, put it in a blender, hit frappe, and drink the remains as a way of showing you are superior in your argument skills.

Indeed. Read the whole thing.

Insta-lanche!!

These rules take all of the fun out of arguing. What's the point of having a pit full of ravenous monkeys if you can't use it?

Holy crap a link from the puppy blender!!

Don't tell me you've grown fond of the taste of pureed puppy juice Frank.

But what if you're arguing with Robot Hitler?

I think Hitler comparisons are totally acceptable then, even if Robot Hitler doesn't like them.

Doesn't ruling out the heart-pulling tactic put all of us conservatives at a debating disadvantage?

After all, we're often told we are heartless... Are we to be the only ones denied a useful debating point?

Wait. How does one reach in and grab an ounce of common sense?

Frank

If the other persons argument is full of points well refuted, or is say Ted Rall, is it ok to sing little ditties in your head while he is having his say?

I usually sing the armour hot dog song, takes all the rage out of me.

It's prefectly fine to follow these rules and if they fail, a tire tool works well too.

@#$%^@@ YOU! YOU (*&^%%$ @#$ @#$%^^&&!!!!!!!!
#$%^ OFF AND #$%^&%$!!!!!

I would like to point out for everyone that Defense Guy is playing hookie from work.

And, Frank, why have cordial discussions to begin with? Some people don't like cordials. They think they're too sweet.

To Miranda's idea: I would think that a useful byproduct of your technique would be available hearts for transplant - them I realized that, constantly bleeding as they are, Liberal hearts wouldn't be any good at all.

Defense Guy - I usually go with one of the Schoolhouse Rock tunes (conjunction junction - what's your function?)

Just to get the proper order of things out there:
1)Rip out the heart.
2)Show heart to Hill..ah, I mean, YOUR OPPONENT just before (he) slips off into moonbat hell.
3) *important* take a bite and spit it at HIS FRIENDS/COMPANIONS - it's always important, before beginning a new debate, to make sure everyone knows where they stand.

D.G. - is that you, Jer?

When people argued with Hitler, who did they compare HIM to?

Oh wait, people didn't argue with Hitler. Too bad, he could have used some tips too:

DO: Engage in constructive mutual sharing of ideas for solutions for international problems.
DON'T: Invade Poland.

"Don't be Vague, ask for Prauge."

Fortieth!

I wrote something kind of similar a while ago. See:

http://countrygirl.typepad.com/home/2004/03/a_fullswing_mud.html

(Gee I guess I am capable of shameless self-promotion).

One of my rules, using your format:
DON'T ever say “I am outraged!"
Too many politicians are outraged over the littlest of things and “outraged” no longer means “outraged” it now means one blowhard going overboard in his reaction to another blowhard.

DO say you are irritated, exasperated, miffed, piqued, annoyed, or offended.

DON'T subject your opponent to Chinese water torture.

Do ask your opponent to view your TREE CAM!

Don't put words in the other person's mouth, accuse him/her of impugning your patriotism, lacking "bipartisanship," etc. That's called attacking a straw man and it makes you look stupid.

Do study critical thinking and learn to identify fallacious arguments like those just mentioned, and learn how to point them out. That will really drive the other person into a frothing-at-the-mouth hate rant. While this is occurring smile condescendingly with a touch of pity in your expression.

Never argue with Robot Hitler. Instead, point over his shoulder and say, "Hey! Are those flying monkeys?" When he turns to look, pop open the little door in his back and take his batteries out. Then give them to Al from Home Improvement for recycling.

AST has got it nailed, that's how my father has handled every arguement I have ever had with him!

Does the heart maneuver work with brain too? I much prefer the taste of that, it's squishy!

INSTALANCHE!!

"DON'T follow all disagreements with putting the other person's head through drywall. That gives who you're talking to no time to consider what you said. Also, it's hard to repair the drywall and paint over it perfectly to cover up the hole."

I find it helps if you remove the head first.

How dare you out my hookey playin. Remember Bubba, turnabout is fair play now.

Geez, I wish I'd read this before I conducted this experiment over at http://wizbangblog.com/archives/002406.php ...

J.

You're kidding, right? With jackasses like Rush Limbaugh and Sean Hannity arguing your case, I literally cannot stop laughing that a conservative thinks he can lecture on civil discourse.

Biff - YOU DIE NOW! WAHAHAHA! How dare you impugn my patriotism in such an un-bipartisan manner! What's that behind you? Flying monkeys? Did they just fly out your butt? Hey, how do I get this battery compartment open? (See, that was an implication comparing Biff to Robot Hitler - AH, you never said we shouldn't compare people to ROBOT Hitler - HAHA, I love winning on techincalities!) Take that, stupiud bastrad! WAHAHAHA!!!

"Democrats do all the don'ts, repubs do all the dos;"

You don't get around much, do you?

"however, democrats doing the don'ts make the republicans not want to do the dos but instead the don'ts and so forth.."

How's that for personal responsibility? It was the Dem that made me do it.

Conservatives in the public sphere are invariably lying blowhards. But even in debating regular conservatives, I've never heard an adequate defense of any conservative ideas. They mostly seem genuinely ignorant of both history and of how our society functions.

Geez, Biff - ever heard of the logical fallacy based on the use of absolutes such as "invariably" and "never" in your argument?

It must really suck to regularly be the only guy in a crowded room who's allowed to delude himself that he's got a clue. Particularly when he hasn't.

Normally, you'd be right, but in this case, the usage is appropriate. The talking heads who self-identify as conservative are always pushing a worldview utterly inconsistent with reality. Conservative ideals are generally contrary to the realities of society, and depend on misrepresenting or completely ignoring history. If you think this is fallacious, you're welcome to present a valid conservative idea to disprove me.

Talking heads, eh? What's next, talking asses? Oh wait. . .

Maybe the reason you've "never heard an adequate defense of any conservative ideas" is because you've never listened to anyone but yourself speak. Go marry Robot Eva Braun and blow your CPUs out with a luger.

Well of *course* you shouldn't lower them slowly into a pit of ravenous monkeys. Everybody knows that the one incompetent guard on duty will allow them to escape, or that they'll find something on their utility belt to get out of the trap.

All I wanted was a pit of ravenous monkeys with frickin' LASERS on their heads. Throw me a bone here, people. There are several down there in the pit - just pick one.

Is it okay to compare them to Idi Amin or Pol Pot?

"just because someone doesn't think like you doesn't mean you should call him evil and kill him. That's what Islamic extremists and the majority of posters at Democratic Underground would do."

Don't try to tell me you've never been to freerepublic.com.

You really should check it out some time.

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