First!

I've never said it, but I love hearing from these wonderful guys. Thanks to you all so much for everything I am able to do in my life. And thanks, Frank, for not just giving them a voice here, but also for reminding us what's important.

Second! say does buck get a extray stipen for recruting.

that's awesome, Buck the Marine. i do love these stories.

(SSG) Buck the Marine? Cool.

Hey, Frank, what's Buck's rank in the stories? I don't know as you've ever said.

Great stories.

As for the guy with the knee problem check out:

Matt Furey

The Hindu squats will shape up your knee(s) in no time.

From one vet (22 yrs) to you others, Thanks guys and girls.

How about some more stories about funny stuff in the military? We've heard a bunch of "why I joined" stuff...

Airman BEO go over to supply and get a mile of runway!

Seaman Shmoe, go down to engineering and get an HT Punch. The biggest one they have.

I support the troops because they are doing what they are asked. BUT, this war is a bogus war based on lies. Check out what it costs us at CostOfWar.com

-- Speak Out at Speek It!

The cost of the war listed on the above referenced site is around $122B. I'll accept that amount, regardless of the fact that they are including various fixed costs not necessarily tied to the war. (Unless you're suggesting we disband our military and cease paying them for their services regardless of where they are.)

However, you haven't addressed the alternative to war - containment.

Last year, the cost of containment was estimated at $380B and that includes ONLY direct costs (not indirect costs associated with leaving Saddam Hussein in power or of a possible attack by Iraq). Include other, indirect costs, and the cost of containment increases to $630B.

Cost of Containment

Bah! The above was directed to "S". Sorry. :(

Misty:

What do you mean by containment?

Let's recap the claims that were made by our government leading us into war:

Claim 1) Saddam has WMDs including chemical and biological weapons that he could use at any time or supply to a terrorist.

Counter 1) So far no WMDs have been found. The White House has abandoned this claim, instead referring to our "liberation of Iraq" which was not why we went their in the first place. I find it hard to believe that a country with spy satellites that can read the date on dimes can't know for sure if WMDs exist in Iraq.

Claim 2) Iraq/Saddam was an ally with Al-Qaeda and had a hand in the 9/11 planning.

Counter 2) The 9/11 commission found no credible evidence linking Iraq to Al-Qaeda. After this was announced, the White House claimed that they never claimed that Iraq was an ally with bin-Laden, but reviews of previous speeches reveal otherwise.

Costs saved by not going to war (not necessarily monetary):

Over 500 American troops have died in fighting in Iraq, most since "combat" had been declared over.

Thousands of troops have been injured.

$122B dollars that could have been used domestically to educate our children and provide healthcare.

The costs of not going war were already being paid to the U.N. in terms of weapons monitoring and enforcement, food for oil programs and security (spying). I don't think any of those costs will go away after the war.

As for the regular costs (troop salaries, etc), those costs are inflated due to the call-up of reserves and national guard and the "draft" of retired military servicemen.

I am not sure how anyone can argue this war has cost us more than anyone could have expected and is putting an unneeded burden on our country.

On my stopover in Huston on my way back to Orlando, I bought a smoothie and a sandwich and it cost me $12. It wasn't until I was seated and started eating that I went, "What the f**k?"

You need to pay attention to the cost of things.

I don't pay attention to the cost of things, that's for the little people. you know, the whole "if you have to ask how much it costs...." I hope you weren't in Houston too long Frank. I hear nothing but nasty things about it.

I agree that S proves his point about educating our children.

Dman, if you are implying that I am uneducated than you are an idiot. If you want to make an argument against any of my points, don't be a politician and address the points.

If for some reason you weren't trying to challenge my intelligence, ignore above.

S, you are smarter than I thought.

What do you mean by containment?

via dictionary.com: "A policy of checking the expansion or influence of a hostile power or ideology, as by the creation of strategic alliances or support of client states in areas of conflict or unrest."

We had been containing that regime since 1991 with the use of various naval vessels, aircraft, vehicles, technology and personnel. If you dispute this fact, can you please tell me where my husband was from June 1995-December 1996 and again from August 1997-February 1998 if not in the Persian Gulf? If my best friend's husband wasn't REALLY on the USS Boxer from October 1998-April 1999, I want to know why I was her labor coach when their daughter was born and not him.

Costs saved by not going to war (not necessarily monetary):

Over 500 American troops have died in fighting in Iraq, most since "combat" had been declared over. Thousands of troops have been injured.

And troops were killed during the containment process, as well. I knew four fabulous men whose helicopter crashed off the coast of California while doing workups for the 97-98 WESTPAC float. Many more were endangered ALL the time as they were fired on while patrolling the no-fly zones over Iraq. So how many war casualties are you willing to trade for containment casualties? Because war casualties will most likely cease in another year or so, but containment would have lasted decades. So, it's not a savings in the cost of life. You're just spreading the cost over a longer period of time.

$122B dollars that could have been used domestically to educate our children and provide healthcare.

It seems as if you never took a business class, so here's a quick lesson. If you have 100 troops who make $10K/year each, you are going to have to pay those people whether they are in a war zone or not. Using that base pay as a "cost of war" is misleading because you'll be paying that million dollars regardless. You would not have $122B to spend on education or healthcare unless you were willing to disband the military and stop paying them.

The costs of not going war were already being paid to the U.N. in terms of weapons monitoring and enforcement, food for oil programs and security (spying). I don't think any of those costs will go away after the war.

I disagree with you. If we're successful in creating a democracy in Iraq, weapons monitoring will be much more efficient. More efficient means less expensive. Food for oil can go away completely once Iraq is able to sustain their own economy. And we won't need to focus as much attention to "security" if the country is an ally.

As for the regular costs (troop salaries, etc), those costs are inflated due to the call-up of reserves and national guard and the "draft" of retired military servicemen.

They are inflated, to be sure. But the inflated costs of salaries/training/support/etc. are STILL less than the costs of containment.

I'm not sure what you mean about the "draft" of retired military servicemen. If you're talking about the call up of members of the IRR, that's completely different and is a part of the serviceperson's contract that they are obligated to rejoin the service for a specified amount of time after the end of their active service. (I always heard of it as the Inactive Reserves, but I know there's another name for it that I can't think of right now.)

I am not sure how anyone can argue this war has cost us more than anyone could have expected and is putting an unneeded burden on our country.

I'm with you here. I don't know how anyone could argue this war has been too costly or that it's putting an unneeded burden on our country. I just don't see it.

This went really long and I didn't mean to hijack the comments. Feel free to e-mail me if you still want to argue your case.

Misty,

You make some equally valid points and I appreciate your discussion on the topic.

I have a request from the group to give your opinion on the new Florida Citizen Awareness Program that will allow your bug guy and cable installer to be trained to "look" for evidence you are a terrorist, child porn user or drug trafficker. Speek It!

S: $122B dollars that could have been used domestically to educate our children and provide healthcare.

How about they refund that money to the taxpayers that paid them? We can and do pay for our own kids' educations, thank you. If you want to help educate someone else's children and provide healthcare for them, feel free to whip out your checkbook instead of ours - our tax dollars belong to individual Americans, not to people who want to provide charity with other people's dollars.