So basically we should just give up our rights and privacy if Bush says its ok? The point isn't that Frank's phone conversations are incredibly boring the point is that the government shouldn't be allowed to invade people's privacy. This is not the Soviet Union -- the government does need to (or have the right to) collect our phone conversations and store them. IMAO wants freedom for Iraqis but not freedom for Americans.

first

Sarcasm Man,
Where's the sarcasm?

Frank's conversations?

Frank-

I think he's still suffering from a concussion after being beat up by Triangle Man.

Sarcasm Man

You are just annoyed because you aren't clever enough to avoid making crucial mistakes...

Regardez (Im assuming you have some French in you)

"the government does need to (or have the right to) collect our phone conversations and store them. "

Wasn't your point that they do NOT have the right to?

I think you are just afraid that you are going to forget to say NOT the next time you say "I do not want to support terrorism" and they are gonna come after you.

'twould be sad, wouldn't it....

//Sarcasm Man,
Where's the sarcasm?//

Sorry, I forgot it. For a second there I clearly thought this was a serious political forum.

//Wasn't your point that they do NOT have the right to?//

I wrote it in the hope that we have a right to privacy and freedom of expression.

Nice They Might be Giants reference Laurence

How does "freedom of expression" say "the government does need to (or have the right to) collect our phone conversations and store them"

In case you couldn't understand Peter's post, he says "Hey monkey, you forgot the 'NOT'!"

Why has the quality of IMAO trolls gone down so? The Limey didn't make such mistakes.

I forgot a word. God forgot to give you a brain. Which is worse?

SM-

Which is worse... which is worse...

Hrm... your parents forgetting to use contraception?

Yes, Sarcasm Man, they're recording YOUR phone calls. NOT. The only calls that are being recorded are to and from known terrorists. The database that USA Today touted is only a phone "record," which every moron should know has existed since the days the phone system went computerized (much like there is a record of all the porn sites Sarcasm Man visits in AOL, or whichever provider's computer). The phone record only states which numbers were called, so once they find a terrorist they can see who's been calling him and then start investigating why.

Pretty much makes sense.

I distrust the government just as much as the next guy, if not more, but if they find MY phone number stored in Osama's cell phone, the had BETTER put a tap on my phone. And if they don't, I demand to know why.

Anytime I call Osama, SarahK makes sure I don't mention the ingredients to any of her secret recipes because we just assume the NSA is listening in.

Welcome to Soviet USA thanks to the Bush administration:

"USA Today reported that AT&T, Verizon and BellSouth have beenproviding the NSA with the phone records of more than 200m Americans for the purpose of allowing the ultra-secret surveillance agency to analyse calling patterns."

The Bush Administration's choice for all of us is to panic and let fear of terrorists make us forget about our freedoms and the privacy we have enjoyed. Why is it ok for them to have lists of who everyone has called? It is none of their business. I guess freedom is marching away from this country. Who is wearing the dumb monkey face that needs to be punched now?

The people at Defense Tech must have monkey faces since they disagree with the NSA's privacy invasion. You better go punch their dumb monkey faces.

Um, aren't these the same phone records that they're always pulling in crime TV shows like "Law And Order"? The ones where you can see who called whom and how long the call was? I admit L&O isn't reality, but honestly, how many times have the detectives on that show wished they knew what was said in the phone calls they found on the record? If the police can pull these records and it's not a civil liberties disaster, why not the feds?

Who are the NSA and what are they recording?

What the hell is going on here? You mean you guys think it is perfectly fine for the government to record conversations of private citizens? WHAT?!?!

WHAT IS THIS PLACE?!?!?!?

I'm telling you the NSA has no business recording any conversations except for their own astronauts. They just need to keep to themselves there at Kennedy Space Center and not worry about what I'm saying to my neighbor across the fence. Come to think of it though, I think I did see a squirrel perched on my roof with what looked like a microphone attached to his tail.

Hmmmm...

The police have to get a warrant silly hermit.

Isn't there some sort of animal rights thingy preventing the police from using squirrels in warrants though?

Seems wrong to me.

Sarcasm Man has me convinced.

What right do the feds have to to obtain records of my personal information?

Next thing you know, they're going to insist on knowing how much income I earn and how I earn it.

It's an invasion of privacy I tell you!

I couldn't agree more, Bob. The government has way to much power.

People that think the government should have this kind of knowledge on us are just a bunch of fascist pigs. Conservatives think they have it all figured out, but they don't. I mean, how can you claim to be using phone information for lawful purposes while at the same time the government is trying to take control over us all.

I say we take a stand now. I know I'm prepared. I've got my aluminum foil hat on as we speak, and a lightning rod fastened to my house.

Bring it on...

My telephone records would be even more boring than FrankJ's. Mostly, the NSA would learn that I hang up whenever somebody doesn't start talking within about half a second of my saying "Hello", because I know that it's an auto-dialed solicitation call.

I simply remain alert for weird noises, like beeps and buzzs, or a strange cough from someone other than the person I'm talking to. If that happens I change the subject to something inocuous like the last episode of Scrubs or something.

Mulder Lives!

OK, Now I'm really confused. I don't know who's being sarcastic, who actually hates the idea of spying on Americans (personally, I'm all for it! Yay!), and who's a troll.

What is a troll, anyway? Is it different from a spammer? Aren't we all trolls in one sense of the word? Why can't we nuke Mars instead? Why is the sky blue? I'm so lost.

I'm still pretty sure the NSA is different from NASA, though. (Sorry if you were being sarcastic, Toxic Avenger.)

Since Frank J. recently announced that he does, in fact, read these comments in his e-mail, I feel very sorry for him. That must waste a lot of his time.

I hope they don't find out who I've been writing letters to.

...but I think I'm OK as long as nobody at the post office secretly works for the government.

the blue square,
Since I didn't write this article, I don't get e-mailed the comments.

But I did just read them all on my own because I love all readers of IMAO.

SM -

It's worse than you think. Every federal employee who has a confidential security clearance is given access codes to view all of your phone logs. We can even tap into your cable/satellite boxes and monitor your TV viewing habits. For example, we know that you can't miss an episode of Christopher Lowell and you should know that Brandi at 1-900-Hot-chix is actually a 53 year old grandma with a bad case of hemorrhoids.

Sarahk,

Awe, specialness. :-) If I was a Democrat and thus had a heart, I might feel... inspired... happy... loved...

As it is, whatever, miss T-Shirt babe!

I'd love to know how the word "records" came to mean "recorded conversations". It's like liberals have magical abilities to change the meanings of words or something!

And why can't Bellsouth, Verizon, ect. give out their own phone information if they want? It's their company, after all.

Uhhhh...let me try to understand the logic behind this...a couple thousand government agents are able to listen to every single word ever said over a phone by millions of people every day? Could you trolls please explain this to me? You guys are terrified of this and yet you are the people that want big government? Or is it just you people are affraid of the government finding out how many 900 cals you make in a day? Better get fitted for tin foil hats. Perhapse those blocking out those government mind control rays will allow you to think a bit more clearly.

Dear IMAO,

Your "trolls" happen to be correct. We are indeed monitoring every single word ever said, infiltrating every single aspect of your lives. We control you all like robots.
We are currently programming our "super soldiars" for a complete take over of America. We are prepairing the way for an invasion of an alien race; there are only a handfull of us who will have any trace of free will left when the aliens arrive...it is they who will control the human race.
Moving to any European country will not help. The European union is already under our total control. In fact, the only areas not currently under our control are small sectors of South America and Africa. We will soon pound them into submission with our new weather control station you call "HARRP".
Not one of you will be safe once we unleash the black, unmarked helicopters...live in fear, for our dawn is soon ariving. And "tin foil hats" won't help...our current ULF mind control frequnecies will easily penatrate them. Our agents in black have been sent forth to round up anyone who questions the actions of our puppet dictator, George Bush. Resistance is futile...complete submission is iminent.

I have some things to day about this little debate at mater musings. Stop by.
Some of you people are sincerly hysterical.
1. If you're not planning the downfall of civilization why do you care who's listening.?
2......
** Quick tip, keep up the vitriol and either your stomach will develop an unsightly hole in it or your heart, such as it is will simply give up on you.

sorry, blue square, that was Frank J. sucking up. he accidentally posted as me. i hope your heart didn't thump too much.

I saw a werewolf drinking a pina-colada at Trader Vicks' - his hair was perfect!

Aaahwooooooooo!

Hey, are you guys ever going to podcast again? I'mean, I finally get an Ipod, and all I have is the old stuff to download! Where is my new podcast funny?

Sarcasm Man...and others,

Just so you get this straight: This program began in 1999. Bush wasn't President in 1999. So, before you get too far into bashing the President for this program, you might want to at least bash the right President.

This was started under the Clinton administration.

Sarcasm Man has only uncovered part of the story! Do you know all of the grocery stores now have thes cards, and they say if you swipe them through the thingy you get the GOOD prices . When actually they are looking for people who eat that kind of "eat with your fingers while sitting on the dirt floor food" to find terrorists. But, you can throw them off by buying a package of bacon and just throwing it away when you leave. (don't touch the package with your own hands though, or you won't get your 72 black eyed virgins!).

Unlike Bush, Bill Clinton obtained FISA warrants.

//If you're not planning the downfall of civilization why do you care who's listening.?//

The potential abuses by the government are obvious from spying on businesses for insider secrets to spying on political opponents. There are no checks and balances going on here. Clearly you people must trust the government 100% otherwise you would be upset.

Cancer man has a good point. How do you know you are under mind control when you are under mind control. If someone under mind control fell in the woods, would anyone else perceive it?

Hmmm...

BTW... what works better for blocking mind control radiation... aluminum or tin foil?

It's the I have no facts hit him with the lame and worn out tinfoil hat argument from the Toxic Puke. When you can't win an argument turn to the "your so crazy you wear tinfoil hats" ploy. Sarcasm Man doesn't trust the government 100% so he must be a crazy and wear a tinfoil hat?

Sarcasm Man -

You have yet to show how "telephone records" are the equivalent to "recorded conversations."

It seems to me that the government is only getting a copy of your telephone bill. I agree that it seems pretty shady. I'm not sure I want the government to know how many times I call tech support on how to operate the DVD player.

Shouldn't you be more worried about how much information the IRS has about you? Or the credit card companies? Your employer? Collecting information about who you call and for how long doesn't even have the potential of evil, let alone being actually evil. I believe other sites say...

You've been pwned. HAND.

Tinfoil it is. I suppose aluminum is a poorer conductor. I don't care if you wear a tinfoil hat or not. But I'm sure not taking any chances.

I don't even have to be the government to get your phone records. Nor do I have to have a search warrant. All I need is $29.95 and a working Internet Browser to go to Reverse Genie.

Again - pwned. Dude, you suck. Shouldn't you be posting "me too" at DU or Kos?

Anyone know how long it takes to obtain a subpoena from a federal judge?

With something like 80% of Americans being in favor of what the NSA is doing, why are the monkey faces even trying to make this an issue? They are only deverting the publics attention from where the government is really screwing up. Like that fact that they haven't secured our borders, haven't drilled for more oil in Alaska and off the coast of California, and haven't started bombing Iran yet.

The Bush Administration thinks they can have this huge database of people's phone records and then go and listen to whatever phone conversations they think are necessary without a warrant. That's a violation of the constitution (see the 4th amendment) and our privacy. I don't know why you suckers think that's a good thing. The only way you would is if you 100% trust the government (suckers) and think that there is absolutely no way that information would ever be abused.



Redneck -- wow what a cool acronym -- you are so creative and smart. You don't own the argument dude you are losing it. What you are saying is that you blindly trust the government and whatever they do. You are all saying that. You are blind sheep following your leader. How pathetic. How mindless you are. You want no checks and balances on what the Bush administration does. You suckers could care less if Bush gets warrants or obeys the law.



P.S. Kos is wrong about illegal immigration -- Kos and Bush basically agree on illegal immigrants which is bizarre. Oh wait no it isn't. Bush is just a sellout to big giant multinational companies that's why he supports illegal immigration.



This was my last post. See you guys later. :-)

*Applause*
*Cheering*
Encore!

So, has anyone found out about the timeliless of those federal subpoenas?

Anyone?

I believe the actual time to get a federal subpoena is sometime between "nuclear launch" and "2nd nuclear launch."

The Bush Administration thinks they can have this huge database of people's phone records and then go and listen to whatever phone conversations they think are necessary without a warrant

You keep saying it and yet it still isn't true.

Redneck...you are so creative and smart.

I know - it's a gift.

Not only that, but since when does someone need a phone record to "tap" a wire?

Maybe the government was reading my email while I couldn't get to it this morning?

Nah.

Dear Mr. Simon,

Thank you for the sale of a certain disadent's comment string. We are currently tapping his phone and modem line. He will be sent to a FEMA holding facility for Bush detractors at our earliest conveniance. As always, we appreciate your valued and continuing support of the vast right-wing conspiracy.

Special Agent --------------,

Just shut up and keep the checks coming, bitch.

But for God's sake, take a few bucks out of my next check to buy yourself a name.

Ouch. Is that blood? Looks like it might get infected.

Sarcasm Man,

The 4th amendment to the Constitution limits the government's ability to come into your house and to seize your property. How the hell do you even equate a document stating phone numbers you have called to coming into your home and/or seizing your belongings.

Or do you have some rare historical knowledge that the authors of the Constitution had discussions about the yet-to-be-invented phone, and how this article of the Constitution might apply to it?

Son of Bob,

Not only that, but while we may own the phones we use, we don't own the lines and all of the other infrastructure between FrankJ's phone and Osama's phone. Who does? Who paid for all of that infrastructure? Largely the US Government, no?

If people seriously want privacy, they need to install their own telecommunications infrastructure from the ground up. Then they can claim some right to privacy while using it.

It's a good thing phone conversations are never transmitted via radio or via fiber optic. Otherwise, it would be too easy to intercept a phone conversation without "wiretapping".

Phew!!