but it's a bit late in the series for someone to be revealed to be a sleeper agent.

Actually, since there are 12 models of cylons and we only know 4 or 5 of the models so far. There's a whole lot of sleeper agents still to come.

If they follow the original series in this, Baltar will work for the Cylons to help hunt down the humans that will be, once again, on the run.

Since his "main squeeze" is likely to continue to protect him, she may work to convince the other bots that he's too valuable to toss out.

The only "Iraq allegory" that might be on SciFi is Stargate SG1. The "Ori" are taking over the galaxy. Shall we say... the Islamic extremists? Besides, Battle Star is a take off from, what, the seventies? Before the 9/11, Afghanistan, Iraq Wars... Perhaps a USA vs. Commie conflict (?) Just something to consider. Or not.

We keep seeing that scene where Boltar is in the house on the lake and the nukes go off across the water.

Then his girlfriend wakes up on Caprica having been newly reanimated after being blown up at the start of the hostilities and nuclear bombardment.

Interestingly enough concurrently with Sharon/Boomer even though the humans had been on the run for some time before she was killed on Galactica. . .

How exactly would Boltar have survived being within the blast range of a nuclear explosion that destroyed the house on the lake. Can Cylons make a one of a kind copy?

My roommate got me to start watching it towards the end of last season, but now I can't stand to anymore since it was pointed out to me how incredibly stupid some of the characters act in order for the plot to move forwards. Not that this is the only entertainment that does that (see: horror movies) but I don't like those either.

Mike, my guess is that the female cylons super power resides in their, um, hoo-hahs. My proof? 1.All the humans want to screw them and, 2. when placed between you and and nuclear bomb, you are completely shielded.

Come to think of it, my wife may be a cylon.

I told hubby last night that I'd keep watching for a few more episodes, but if this series is going to go West Wing/ER on me, I'm out. I really really hope they don't lose me, because I really like this show.

Trying to justify suicide bombings (against cylons that won't really die!) and the fight against the occupation, and complaining about torture and detention by the cylons, none of that was in the late '70's early '80s original show. the rant about the torture and detention was straight from the liberal talking points about gitmo. I'll give it two episodes, but if this continues then I'm out.

Considering that I grew up with the ORIGINAL BG, I don't watch the new one. NO ONE can replace Richard Hatch...*sigh*

as soon as i heard the word "insurgency", i cringed... we're hanging in a couple more episodes, too, but...

SkyeChild,
Never seen the original, and I only know Richard Hatch as the sorta terrorist he plays in this series (though he definitely seems like a good guy now in comparison to all else that's going on).

sherlock,
I'm pretty sure in two episodes they'll be back off that planet (the next two episodes are called Exodus Part 1 and Exodus Part 2. The suicide bombings were pretty dumb; I thought most of those in history were done more for fanaticism that a tactical advantage. Just leave the bomb and run away like the Irish.

I wasn't too happy with the insurgency/suicide-bombing tactic either.

Here's what I don't get: abortion was banned last season because they couldn't afford to not repopulate humanity. Yet these knuckleheads could justify suicide-bombing Cylons (who can't die) and fellow humans? Dumb.

The insurgency angle seems a bit heavy-handed, but I'm willing to give it a couple of episodes. The thing that's interesting there is the moral dilemma that's playing out over the use of suicide bombers by the humans. As long as they don't beat it into the ground, I'll go with it for the moment.

As to Adama's really STUPID idea of bringing Boomer back into the fold, that made me want to gag. Even if she could be trusted, she'll automatically download everything she knows about the fleet and the insurgency if she dies. So the only really smart thing to do with her is to keep her in her cell, where she can't learn anything important, and where she's relatively safe

The suicide bombing thing did bother me a little bit, primarily because it's out of character fot the colonials. The whole point of suicide bombing is that by performing the act, you're rewarded in the afterlife, but that's not a part of the colonial's religion. The only one it kind of made sense for was Duck, because he just didn't want to live anymore after the death of Nora, and wanted revenge on the cylons for her death. Two birds with one stone, as it were.
As for the rest of it, it was originally intended to be remeniscent of Vichy France during WWII, and that's exactly what it felt like to me. I think any Iraq references were an afterthought. So much so, that it didn't really work. If it hadn't been for the suicide bombing thing, most people wouldn't have even thought of the Iraq connection, IMHO. And just for the record, the word insurgency has been in use a lot longer than the current war. I don't mind the colonials being called insurgents. What I can't stand is to hear the terrorists in Iraq called insurgents.

Forgot to add: I read an interview with Ron Moore last night where he talks about this stuff. Bottom line from the interview - he likes playing with these concepts, of throwing in bits of history and current events as a way of exploring them, but he has no intention of allowing this series to be turned into polemic for either the left or the right.
Bottom line, I'm giving it a chance and letting it play out.

I think we may be a bit over-sensitive here.

I don't see many similarities between the Cylon occupation of New Caprica and the US occupation of Iraq. And given that, I don't think showing a heroic human resistance on New Caprica reflects Iraqi-insurgency sympathies.

If the same series had been made in, say, 1999, we would have no trouble watching it and seeing it as, say, a reflection of Nazi-occupied Frnace. (A much closer match--the Vichy government with the scary Nazi/Toaster soldiers in the background, and good WWII-movie tropes like the hot chick sleeping with the enemy for her own reasons, but getting compromised...) And given that parallel, it's interesting that they lean so hard on how the human resistance is playing fast-and-loose with moral rules--hiding weapons in the temple, hoping to provoke atrocities, using suicide bombers.

Some of the langauge parallels are unfortunate, but, really, it's English, there are only so many words. An ad-hoc rebellion against an occupier will call itself "resistance", the government will call them "insurgents" or "terrorists".

It's possible that the producers are, with a wink and a nod, allowing Anger-Filled Lefties to think it's their show. (I'm sure Cindy Sheehan watched it and said "OMG yes George Bushitler is a Cylon like Baltar!") But the show's a lot more complex than that. Don't rush to judgement.

Plus OMG Xena Warrior Toaster = T3H H0TT.

The thing with this show is, if you look hard enough, you can find things that go left, and things that also go right. For example, with the season 2 finale, Lay Down Your Burdens pt 2, I encounted quite a few moonbats who thought the whole Roslin trying to steal the election thing was a reference to Bush (supposedly) stealing the election in 2000, and that President Baltar=President Bush. That analogy makes no sense to me. On the other hand, I can see a very clear reference to the themes of the Republican vs. Democrat stratgies for the war on terror in the whole concept of laying down your burdens and taking the easy way out in the middle of a war. I'm sure there are a lot of people who would happily lay down this war and go back to the September 10th mentality if they had the slightest chance, and that episode (and this whole story arc, really), are a testament to what a fundimentally stupid idea that is. But am I just seeing that because as a conservative, that's what I want to see? The fact that this show can draw comparisons to both sides of the aisle says to me that it's not really taking a side, and I'm sticking with that analysis until I see a good reason not to.

Oh, and I don't know if I made it clear with my other posts, but, in spite of the suicide bombing thing, I thought the show was a blast. I'm very psyched for next week's show.

I guess none of you recognized the music.

This episode was just awful. Moore is using the old trick of reversing fortunes.

We sympathize with the humans so he puts them in the position of the insurgents and makes the Cylons the aggressors. What would you do in that situation? Would you fight the Cylons unmercifully? Would you be willing to indiscriminately kill collaborators? Would collateral damage be worth the advantage gained in proving your resolve?

We're being asked to sympathize with a position we abhor.

It's tasteless and the analogy doesn't hold under scrutiny.

I'll continue to watch for this whole season but now I'm coming at it with the attitude of "FUCK THIS SHOW" rather than "FUCK, THIS SHOW ROCKS!"

2¢

I thought it was partly an Iraq war allegory. I found parts of the show abhorrent, a military commander sending people on suicide bombings and justifying it saying he sent many a men to die in the past? Huge difference in sending in men to die (in war) to secure a goal and blow up something for no purpose at all.

At the end of the second episode, with Rosalyn being killed (presumably) by the Cylons made me happy. She was ruining the show anyways with her bleeding heart leadership style.

The whole concept of the show is flawed though. Your planet is blown to hell, your arch enemy is living on it, and the remaining humans have a functioning democracy? Nah, I don't think that's happening. A free press? Not very likely.

the remaining people pretended they weren't at war the whole season, which is pretty apropo to today (and people who think its 9/10). Hey I'm still alive, so its all cool! Cylons? Whateva, I'll do what I want!

I watched about two minutes, and realized that it was a spin on Palestinian resistance hopelessly fighting against occupied by Zionist Emperialists. Then it's off to watch Hitler stories on The History Channel.

'Huge difference in sending in men to die (in war) to secure a goal and blow up something for no purpose at all.'

True--but it's completely believable to me that a military commander, in that kind of hopeless situation, would talk himself into believing that they were morally equivalent. Especially a commander who (a) was obsessed with revenge (for 20 billion dead humans and, oh, his own eye too), and (b) wasn't exactly the clearest paragon of virtue in the first place.

Also, killing Baltar would hardly have been "to no purpose". And the New Caprican Security Forces were, to my mind, legitimate military targets. However misguided they might be, they are under arms in Cylon command--that makes them targets.

Uh oh. There's a really bad word in an earlier post. Do I hear SarahK locking and loading?

And the New Caprican Security Forces were, to my mind, legitimate military targets.

I'm not saying they weren't legitimate targets. Clearly they were. But nothing good came from the attack; and an astute military commander would realize this. He may want revenge, but poked out eye and all; he would have seen this would only make the situation worse.

Given that (perhaps it was the next episode) the Galactica contacted them anyways, it only served to have more humans killed. The exact opposite of what their original goal was.

I know its just a show, but the lack of strategy on the side of the colonialists is stunning. Both while fleeing Caprica, while they were on the run, and even while under Cylon tyranny. Stunning.

"We keep seeing that scene where Boltar is in the house on the lake and the nukes go off across the water.

Then his girlfriend wakes up on Caprica having been newly reanimated after being blown up at the start of the hostilities and nuclear bombardment."

Yup, and didn't you folks watch the preview for next week's episode? I've been saying all this time Baltar was a Cylon, and I think I'm going to be proved right.

I refused to watch the first season of the new BSG because I was in my 20s when the original was on, and it was the worst TV show on the air. Absolute, cheesy, crap. Lost in Space was better sci-fi than the original BSG.

I'm surprised no one mentioned this, but since there seem to be very few people posting old enough to have watched the original show in the seventies, The original Baltar was also a traitor, and he actually had a Cylon Base star that he commanded. I think a similar fate is likely for this Baltar, especially if (when???) it is revealed that he is really a Cylon. (Probably the first, slightly frakked up, model.)

Also, in regard to the Colonial resistance as an allegory for the Palestinians. I think too much is being read into it. For instance, the New Caprica police have uniforms that are very Wehrmacht looking. (greyish, short billed caps, etc) they line people up to machine gun them next to a pit.

Yes, there is some element of the Iraq war involved, like when Tigh hides weapons in the Temple, But overall, I think that this is just another example of the writers going for shades of grey rather than simple John Wayne-style black and white good guy vs. bad guy. Just keep in mind the amount of existentialist whining going on in this show. Not that it is necessarily a bad thing.

I personally am going to keep watching just to see how Starbuck ends up killing Leoben once and for all.

I'm surprised no one mentioned this, but since there seem to be very few people posting old enough to have watched the original show in the seventies, The original Baltar was also a traitor, and he actually had a Cylon Base star that he commanded.

I'm old. I mentioned it. :)

Scroll up and read the second comment!

Baltar/Baltazar is a traitor to the humans, and works for the cylons. They haven't given him as much direct work in the new series, but I think it's coming. The humans trying to assassinate him might be the tide turner.

I have an entirely different take: did anyone watch Ron Moore's old show Deep Space Nine? The "Gul Dukat retakes the station" storyline from there matches up extremely well with whole New Caprica thing. So I don't think it's a Middle Eastern thing at all, although clearly some of the language used is intended to make it look that way.

Yup, and didn't you folks watch the preview for next week's episode? I've been saying all this time Baltar was a Cylon, and I think I'm going to be proved right.
I think the previews were for the season; not necessarily next episode. Baltar actually being a cylon never occured to me (but it would explain a lot). Last season, I was just waiting for him to finally betray the colonials and the nuke did it, sort of.

did anyone watch Ron Moore's old show Deep Space Nine?
I didnt know he worked on that Star Trek series. I'll have to rewatch some of those cardassian episodes to see how many story lines are flowing the same way.

If I'm not mistaken, there had been episodes where the bajorans blew themselves up in that series, right?

"I think we may be a bit over-sensitive here."

Actually, I think it's a case of not distinguishing between taking things out of current (and not so current) events and analogy, which are two entirely different things. BSG as an analogy for Iraq (or the WOT) doesn't work for any season. There are too many things that don't match. You can see the writers lifting issues and using them (like the abortion law episode), but that's not analogy.

We're seeing the result of too many people who've been turned into deconstructionists by the schools.

BSG is not an analogy. It never has been. Step away from the kool-aid, stop reading things into it, and enjoy the show.

All you people who are bent out of shape about BSG need to read this.

'I'm not saying [the NCP] weren't legitimate targets. Clearly they were. But nothing good came from the attack; and an astute military commander would realize this.'

Yeah, but Tigh definitely has issues as a commander. He didn't exactly do a great job taking over for Adama at the beginning of Season 2. This is all consistent with his history--he takes things personally, he gets obsessed with violent, dramatic solutions to immediate crises (like trying to break a strike on the fleet by sending in marines), and he doesn't respond well to criticism.

'I refused to watch the first season of the new BSG because I was in my 20s when the original was on, and it was the worst TV show on the air. Absolute, cheesy, crap.'

I've often said that if I could go back to the 13-year-old me in 1980 and tell myself about all the amazing changes that would occur in my lifetime, the one that would really floor me would be, "In the third millenium, Star Wars sucks--but Battlestar Galactica is very good."

The analogy to Iraq was most definetily there. Yes, the suicide bombings were the obvious ones. So was hidding weapons in the temple. But how about Ty admiting that the market was a planned target. Or the use of night cameras (green) to show a night raid by the HP (human Police) against chief's wife. Or the fact that the HPs dress exactly like the IPs (Iraqi Police) down to the face masks. Or Ty's mullah omar look now. And the sand bags as head covers for the prisioners. Yup, no allegory here.

And what about the fact that they're using bullets instead of lasers? Just like in Iraq. And they're all wearing clothes, just like the terrorists. Plus the Cylons have hair, just like many in the Coalition Forces. They're breathing air, exhaling CO2, and they're all largely made of water and carbon compounds. On top of that, they're on a planet. Iraq is on a planet. The parallels are so striking, you'd have to be a fool to miss them.

Well not realy. I mean they have to deal with the issues of the day to make it relatable to their audience and what better way to do so than to tie it with something on the headlines.

Its all about audience and understanding rather than principle.

"And what about the fact that they're using bullets instead of lasers? Just like in Iraq. And they're all wearing clothes, just like the terrorists. Plus the Cylons have hair, just like many in the Coalition Forces. They're breathing air, exhaling CO2, and they're all largely made of water and carbon compounds. On top of that, they're on a planet. Iraq is on a planet. The parallels are so striking, you'd have to be a fool to miss them."

ROTFL! Exactly!