Okay, you're an Islamic atheist, but are you Sunni or Shiite one?

Why is it so hard for people to a) imagine that a person can be both an atheist and a conservative or b) that just because we don't believe in a higher power, we're not granted an automatic 'Down-With-America/Up-With-Fascism' Badge. I hate the ACLU too, on that note.

That picture is both creepy and cute, though.

Frank - Um... whichever one it is that blows up women and children because the voices in their head tell them to.

Not only am I atheist about religion, I long ago became atheist about atheists. No seriously, who said that religious folks has a lock on being full of crap? Atheists spent most of the 20th century catching up with organized religion in the bullshit category. Thanks to papa Stalin and Mao, Atheists have long since caught up in the killin’ people department too.

So lets get a few things straight. There is no such thing as WE Atheists. Anyone who claims to represent Atheists is a fraud. The whole idea of organized unbelief is an oxymoron. I just love folks that tell me I don’t believe in anything or I’m going to do something hideous because I don’t share all or part of their belief system. There’s nothing special about Christians like Deb in that department either. I get loads of flak from the secularists for retaining too much of the old Western Christian enlightenment outlook. Guess I’m supposed to pick a belief group and go along to get along. Too much thinkin’ always gets you in trouble.

And, please, please, keep all Unitarians away from me.

Harvey,

Perhaps you have taken offense where none was meant for you. If you're not in the ACLU-Atheist camp then perhaps you can see that Deb wasn't putting you in the "easy-prey-to-islamofascism" category. It does stand to reason, and evidence is ample, that where a void of forced non-belief is created, a strong forced-belief system can, and often does prevail. American traditional religions don't often try to force conversion or incite violence. Unfortunately Islam often does. Some athiests have arrived at their state through thoughtful analysis - but they do have convictions (albeit with no claim to supreme authority). Where atheists have become such due to "no better explanation," they are susceptible to being convinced of a better plan. Especially if a strong and forceful argument is presented.

And the other angle is that many people, even athiests, have a desire for power. In such cases they are likely to take up the cause from which they can gain the most power, whether they personally believe it or not.

Deb's examples were Adam Gadahn and John Lindh. Atheists turned radical muslims. If you're not that flavor of atheism, perhaps you're not under attack by Ms. Schussel. If you can overcome the offense, maybe you can see some points worth considering in her post.

If you don't like the ACLU or terrorists or socialism, it seems you're on the same team amigo.

Deb Schlussel says that, as an atheist, I'm very likely to be seduced by radical Islam.

Which I thought was just the dumbest thing I'd ever heard.

Just keep reading her; it's only a matter of time until she says something dumber, if she hasn't already.

Is it possible to be a believing Christian and an Islamic Athiest at the same time?

Convincing argument there.
But I've decided to become a Hindu Atheist- I don't believe in more gods than you don't.

...or something like that.

Spyn - Good points, all.

My problem with Schlussel's post is that her reasoning is poor.

Walker and Gadahn didn't become terrorists because they were atheists, they did it because they abandoned atheism for Islam.

And the problem with people who oppose Christian prayers in school but not Muslim ones, isn't that they're atheists, it's that they're hypocrites when it comes to fighting for their interpretation of "separation of church and state".

I'm just miffed that she's scapegoating atheism when the blame lies elsewhere.

Oh yeah Bob? Well, I don't believe in the Greek or Roman pantheons.

Yeah. The main problem is that they're evil (or deceived by evil, which has the same effect), not that they're atheist.

No ideology has a monopoly on nutcases.

Personally,

I'm an Atheist-Atheist.

that means that I don't believe in Atheism.

Not that there's anything wrong with that.

Except they're gay.

Not that there's anything wrong with THAT...

Except it's so atheist.

I’m agnostic about the gay bit.

Pardon me as a God-fearin' Christian if I'm takin' liberalities with the Holy Book, but I think that if you love your neighbor as yourself and don't worship power, the God you don't believe in will probably have mercy on your soul.

Probably more mercy than on the souls of those who wrap themselves in Christianity while worshipping power and not loving neighbors.

We talk about faith as if belief were the be-all and end-all -- when it's which principles you trust that matter more.

Any good logical positivists among you atheists? (Not that logical positivism has to be organized or anything).

Capitalist - Not sure about the logical positivists. I'll ask around at the next International Atheist Conspiracy meeting, though :-)

I’m more of a fuzzy logical positivist.

I believe that a systematic search for knowledge is a good way to get at some semblance of the truth. I also believe most simple truths are fixed and don’t depend on my cultural viewpoint, how I feel, or whether what I had for lunch agreed with me. It also means I recognize the limitations in any exploration of what is true and that I probably wouldn’t get it completely right even with way too much time on my hands. I’m not going to get totally upset because of every internal contradiction and trivial hole in reasoning just so I can get the major stuff right.

Oh dear God, I just became a Catholic.

An atheist is a person who says, "I don't believe in God, thank God!"

I still say "bless you" when people sneeze :-)

I usually refer to myself as a “Non-believer” instead of Atheist or Agnostic. The “A” word tends to get people upset plus the distinction gives me a headache. I don’t automatically see how it necessarily forbids considering the ethical, philosophical, and cultural aspects of Christianity on their own merits. I know that’s very different than a believer in the entire system, but there is a very long tradition of non-believers that aren’t necessarily hostile to all aspects of religion. I tend to think that calling oneself an Atheist and automatically cutting oneself off from a significant amount of civilized thought for the last few thousand years is being a bit hasty.

By the way, for those Catholics trying to decide if they’re going to be insulted by the above joke. It wasn’t meant as an insult. I would have liberally sprinkled F-bombs throughout the comment if I was trying to insult.

Neo - I'm not a militant, evangelical atheist, myself, and I readily acknowledge that Christianity has been a net benefit to civilization.

Also, the people I know who seriously take Christianity to heart tend to be, on average, a better class of folks than those who don't.

I wonder when "atheist" stopped meaning "unbeliever" and started meaning "religion hater"?

So, while it was a good attempt, it wasn't funny.

“So, while it was a good attempt, it wasn't funny.”

If you’re referring to the Catholic joke at the end, it’s a bit too obscure I do admit. Although the Church often implores Catholics to understand it’s central principles and reasoning and not get too hung up contradictions and particular oddities and loose the big picture. That is a very Catholic approach (to a different system of reasoning).

I was taking the same (fuzzy) approach to logical positivism.

Note to self: Don’t make jokes that take too much effort to explain.

Harvey asked "I wonder when "atheist" stopped meaning "unbeliever" and started meaning "religion hater"?"

I think that was about the time communism/socialism became the official religion of the left ... which is about the time it became possible to BE on the left.

Capitalist said "... but I think that if you love your neighbor as yourself and don't worship power ..."
Well, heck, I'd love my neighbor ... if I wasn't worried my wife would catch me and run away with half my stuff" and I sure love power ... it allows me to turn on my computer, raise the garage door from the motorcycle seat, and run my power tools!

Neo: it's not your fault. It's the public schools. If social studies classes would quit spending so much time quota-fying their history by ethnicity and would actually talk about the ideas and philosophers of the Middle Ages and the Renaissance, more people would get your joke. I certainly got it!

Harvey asked "I wonder when "atheist" stopped meaning "unbeliever" and started meaning "religion hater"?"

I think that was about the time communism/socialism became the official religion of the left ... which is about the time it became possible to BE on the left.

Capitalist said "... but I think that if you love your neighbor as yourself and don't worship power ..."
Well, heck, I'd love my neighbor ... if I wasn't worried my wife would catch me and run away with half my stuff" and I sure love power ... it allows me to turn on my computer, raise the garage door from the motorcycle seat, and run my power tools!

I'm Fascist and Jewish from China.

Harvey -- I do hope the next IAC meeting goes well. :-)

pete -- you've just demonstrated what the problem with holy books is -- everyone insists on mis-interpreting them the way that's most convenient. :)

SkyeChild -- yup, that's the atheist's prayer, "Lord, save me from your followers!!!"

I ask that all the time, goddessanna. Never have gotten a good answer. Mostly I get shit like Neo-anderthal, conflating atheism with the socialist religion.