I know i posted this earlier, but i am an arrogant, egotistical American and wanted to see it again.

First off to Former Hostage, thank u for being a US Marine and for your admirable behavior during the iranian thuggery. Secondly, the british soldiers broke too quickly, but we do not know what they r taught in these situations, they may have given the Hawaiian good luck sign we don't know, I personally would be ashamed to have given in w/out black eyes, broken nose and limbs in casts. Thirdly, the rules of engagement are what screwed these limeys. Their destroyer had to get permission to fire on the iranian monkeys!! WTF?
Our own soldiers live with this every day as well.
PC bullshit. I know Fmr. Host. would agree, tht if the USMC hands weren't tied by some bureaucratic bullshit, our job in iraq would have been done in months, not years.

This is why people dislike America - they cannot live up to our standards we have for ourselves(or used to if you look at our current crop of politicians)and they feel bad about themselves and want to bring us down to their level. Go US military!!!!!

Wow. Thanks for posting this, Frank and FormerHostage.

Formerhostage, I always wondered what the significance of your name was. But figured it might be something too personal to share.

Thanks for sharing it. You did the Marines proud.

Sgt Subic in jail.

The above is a link for a story about former Sgt Subic, and not all that flattering... go figure, scum bag...

To Formerhostage: I recently educated myself more about the '79-81' hostage-taking and was grateful to have done so. Other than the afore-mentioned failure, you all were shining examples of courage and honor. Thank you.
This recent debacle falls squarely on the shoulders of the C.O.'s of these Brit servicemen. Bad training resulted in Iran being emboldened.

Thank you for your heroic making up of this pathetic story, FormerHostage. At least make it somewhat believable next time, save us all the trouble. KTHXBAI.

Sanjayrupta,
think what you want dude. If you doubt that I am who I say I am, there's not much I can do to change your mind except maybe to say that I graduated from MSG in Quantico in October 1979. At that time we were in the old White Elephant barracks near where the new Marine Corps Library was later built. This was before they completed the new MSG Bn building near the chow hall. Our T/O weapons were Remmington shotguns with folding stocks and .38 Cal pistols. If you don't understand what I'm saying, its probably because only a Marine who was on Quantico at that time would.

As for the story, read "Guests of the Ayatolla" or if you can get your hands on "444 Days" and you will find the episodes I described. Oh wait, in order for you to read them you'd have to pull your head out of your @ss. That might be a bit tramatic for you since I know how much drive-by twits need to feel warm and safe.

I find it amusing that you'd find my recount unbelievable especially since all of us Marines never thought we did anything above and beyond what was expected of us. What we took as more or less commonplace with our situation you find unbelievable. It just goes to show how feminized some in society have become. I suppose that deep down you realize that you'd never be able to handle what we did so, naturally, you make yourself feel better by sticking your fingers in your ears, closing your eyes, and saying "never happened, never happened" over and over.

Frank, get in touch with me and I'll send you a copy of my citations for both my Department of State Medal of Valor and my POW medals so that you can verify to SayinImRuptured that I was there.

On second thought, nevermind. The best revenge we used to get on the monkeys was to ignore them. This wiener deserves no better.

What "trouble"? and who are you calling "us" Sanjayrupta? Go read a history book doofus. Anyone ought to know these actions are perfectly within normal US Marine behaviour patterns. Go corps!

Formerhostage, men like you make me proud to be an American. And although I was never a Marine, your story makes me proud to have worn a US on my collar, and an eagle on my hat.

Helluva story there! I only wish I could stand up to them like you did. Thank you for your service!

You're genuinely A Real American Hero(TM), FormerHostage. If I ever join the forces and get captured, I'll do everything I can to live up to your example. I'm just wondering, why even sign the "confession/denunciation" at all, even using a fake name?

Re: "We resisted at each opportunity, except for Army Sgt Joe Subic who collaborated from day 1 and was later snubbed by the rest of us (and was the only one not to receive a citation). "

I'm ashamed that this puke was part of my Army. Too bad he wasn't Courts Martialed for collaboration.
SFC Cheryl McElroy US ARMY (RET)
Duty, Honor, Country

Sanjayrupta is less than what falls off the south end of a north bound camel. Semper Fi FormerHostage, RR (USMC 1978-2000)

Semper Fi, brother. Thanks for keeping up the faith, and I hope if I'm ever in that situation I can emulate your bravery and gumption.

-Mike the Marine

cruz8r451 "Their destroyer had to get permission to fire on the iranian monkeys!! WTF?"

Get your facts streight - such was not the case - the Cornwall was 5.5NM from the point of engagement and had no weapons systems that could have been brought to bear without putting their own personel in direct line of fire.

The Cornwall was 5.5NM away because the water was too shallow for her to move closer.

Words cannot possible convey the deepest respect and admiration I hold for your loyalty and bravery. It is indeed an honor to call you a fellow American. Thank you.

Experiences like this make me so proud and thankful that there are men out there willing to do what's necessary to keep us free. Thank you for all you endured. Thank you for the correct and proper middle finger up their nose attitude, the well deserved mockery and sheer courage to face the enemy.

Thank you for your brave conduct. I only hope I would do the same if I were in your situation. Go Marines. Hooo uhhh!

Except Ssbn04 that the British sailors and marines were in 50m of water and the HMS Cornwall only drew 6.4 meters. She would have been more than safe being in the same exact place her snatched crew was.

http://www.redstate.com/stories/war/the_explanation_is_no_longer_operative

Sometimes it is a privilege to read of somone who has done ones duty with courage. In this case, it's an honor to read the words by that someone.

FormerHostage,

Thank you for providing me an example - There have been many in the history of American arms. Now I have another one to keep in mind.

The odds of my ever having to live up to such heroism is unlikely - I'm 42 and heading towards the Aviation branch as a mechanic (15U), but you never know, these days.

Thank you for your service, and for your example - if the worst ever happens, your story is the sort of thing that can make it easier to get through the experience with honor intact.

Orion - AKA
Spc Jeff Burhans (Future Soldier - ship for BCT in July)
US Army Reserves

Thank you! Glad you got back. Nothing like a little #1 to tell people what you really think. Our Marines are the best.

As a female having watched the feminist movement from the beginning, all I can say is that I don't like "pretty" boys - far too many men have gone the weak route - we want you back as guys, guys! US Marines are the best!!!

Semper fi! Love your website - first time here - I'll be back.

Thank you for setting an example of courage, honor and duty even while under extreme duress. I'm proud to call myself an American.

Former hostage. I am sorry you had to go through what you did. But you and your comrades made the best out of a bad situation.

The Brit hostage drama goes from bad to worse. Here we have Brits dying in Iraq and the MOD is busy with more important matters - it creates a precedent by giving the hostages permission to collect fees for telling what happened to them.

I am sad to say it is Gilbert and Sullivan time.

OHHH RAH Brother.............
May God continue to bless you, and all our brother Marines.
Thank's for carrying on the tradition.
Semper Fi,
D.Miller/USMC

God bless you, Former Hostage. I remember your time in captivity. We are the home of the free because of you, the brave. Thank God for all our brave military soldiers. How dare anyone say anything against our troops.

I was kidnapped by pirates and they killed all 18 of my children because I wouldn't divulge the "non-disclosed location" of Mr. Richard Cheney Vice President of USA. And yet I still heroically held on, through waterboarding and standing for an hour and sleep deprivation for three hours and forced homosexual contact with the guards.

I expect just as many fawning posts praising me, thanking me in the most cliched way possible, and with as little thought behind the sentiment as FormerHostage got. You may begin.

sanjayrupture -

I can verify the veracity of truth in the old White Elephant's bowels - I was there for SNCO school in '94. Listen to FormerHostage and you will learn wisdom far beyond any academia intellect.

jkn401 - MSG Detachment Commander 2000-2003

And how do you know my story is true? Because I said so, and also because the unit I was with used special top-secret XJ34879-VL Turbanbomber anti-tank missiles. Only I could possibly know that.

Sanjayrupta,

I know your story is false because as everyone well knows, the XJ34879-VL Turbanbomber anti-tank missile was decommissioned in the 70s and replaced with the FU-CamelJockey Interceptor anti-tank missile.

Since you reference Dick Cheney as the VP at the time, you blow your cover on your claim. It was a nice try though.

FormerHostage, all I can do is thank you, because it is due to people like yourself that my 3-yr old son and 1 yr old daughter sleep safely in their beds tonight. God Bless.

FormerHostage, I'd like to add a note of thanks for your service and courage.

Sanjayrupta, just for the sake of the argument, assume FormerHostage is a 10 year old kid posting on the internet.

Since what the hostages went through is well documented and a number of them have written about it, would you like to point out which parts of the description are false? If he's lying about any of it, it ought to be pretty easy to show.

[P.S. admit it-it's the "monkeys" thing that gets you.

Not politically correct, but under the circumstance he's free to call them whatever he wants. If you have problems with any other parts of the story, uh, tough titties-complain to the Iranians about it.]

Former Hostage,
You sir are a hero. We were privileged to have had someone of your caliber serving the US and are thankful for your patriotism and courage. You are the "finest kind."

Maj.Gen. Pravati, please crawl back under the rock you call home. Why one asks does someone have to make such a nuisance of themselves? Go back to the Kos Kids site where you will be more comfortable and we'll be spare your insipid, whining, ignorant comments.

As this is Easter Sunday one should not stoop to Troll tease, but it is almost too great a temptation. It is also not cricket to engage in a battle of wits with someone so obviously deficient in weaponry. That said "May a thousand fleas infest your armpit" or "May your 72 virgins have crabs, scabies and bad breath" Hoping you'll get what you so richly deserve. Karma you know.

Thank you for your service, Former Hostage. Welcome home. Oh, and Sanjayrupta? FOAD, MF.

My apologies for stooping to picking on Sanjayrupta. He just has a complex cuz he's never managed to score with a real man.

Wank!!!

Originally this was nothing more than a blog comment, but then FrankJ stroked my...ego...and asked if he could post it. Well, we all crave attention (right Rupta?) and other than that embarassing profile at classmates.com I'd never been "published" before so I said OK. There's a couple of things I wish I had put in or made clearer. (FYI WAL, I use "monkeys" because the other terms we used wouldn't make it through the naughty word filter...and monkeys are creepy)

First off, thanks for the comments and don't feed the troll.

Second, none of us thought that we had done anything special. That's the one thing non-military types have some trouble understanding. Personally, I was (am?) very uncomfortable with the "hero" tag that the press put on us. We did what we had to do, what we were trained to do. It was just something that Marines do.

Third, when the fecal matter hits the oscillating cooling device, you fall back to training.

The Marines have the longest boot camp of US forces, 13 weeks for enlisted. Officers have OCS, which in the Corps is the equivalent of boot camp, and lasts from 12 to 13 weeks depending on what program you commissioned on (glutton for punishment that I am, I earned a commission so endured both Boot Camp and, 10 years later, OCS and I can say from experience that even without the extra 10 years OCS was harder). After that, officers get to spend another 14 weeks at The Basic School (TBS) in Quantico where they get a taste of combined combat arms and do everything from assaulting a beach in AAAVs (sucked) to blowing up stuff with C4 (didn't suck). The Marines also still do not have co-ed training until advanced schools. It's not that women are better or worse, just different in size and strength. HOWEVER, their training matches a male's step for ever lovin' godmyfeetarekillingmewhenisthisgonnaend step.

There's no way to completely match the stress of combat...but the DIs come realllllly close. In the late 70's there was a great hue and cry from some people *cough*democrats*cough* about the barbarity of Marine boot camp. But it is this stress that prepared us for the confinement. If I could put up with 13 weeks of Drill Instructor SSgt Laird in my face, then nothing short of bullets flying would rattle me.

The training is also not all physical. In fact, you'd be surprised at how much time is spent in the classroom learning everything from basic hygiene and first aid, to squad tactics, to the nomenclature of T/O weapons (I can still field strip an M16 and damned if I can't put most in the 10 ring with a 9mm), to History and Traditions.

Finally, History and Traditions. This is one advantage every Marine has. As an average American (pre-pc) we were raised on black and white war movies ("Sarge! You! Scared?" "Sure kid, a man'd have to be crazy not to be scared") and legends: Crossing the Delaware, Gettysburg, the Alamo, the Battle of the Bulge. On top of this Marines have our own history: the Halls of Montezuma, shores of Tripoli, Bella Woods, Tarawa, Iwo Jima, Khe Sahn (and more recently Fahluja).

We didn't feel that we did anything special...because we hadn't. We had acted like we were trained to act, as we were expected to act, as those who went before us had acted.

The Marines always celebrate the Marine Corps birthday (November 10th) no matter where they are. One of the traditions is the cutting of the cake with a sword. The first piece is presented to the oldest Marine present (active or retired) who then presents it to the youngest Marine present to symbolize the passing of knowledge and traditions from one generation to the next. I always thought this was way cool. It bonds us in ways that are hard to explain. A few weeks ago our financial advisor asked us out to dinner, something she does with all new clients. My wife and I said yes but were a little uncomfortable because we really didn't know her personally and would be meeting her husband for the first time. Turns out he was a former jarhead and by the end of the night we were all jokin' and smokin' as if we'd grown up together.

It's just something Marines do.

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/927831/posts

Fascinating thread on Subic the Perfidious over at Free Republic. It started a few years ago, and is quite an interesting read from the beginning.

But, then go to the post at the bottom of the page on February 28th of this year, 2007.

Once a sleaze, always a sleaze.

Tun Tavern, New Providence, Chapultepec, Peking, Belleau Woods, Haiti, Iwo Jima, Beirut, Hue, Chosin Resevoir, Tehren 1979... You guys added a new chapter to the book and you showed Iran who Marines are. Folks need to reminded what it means to be an American, and who the good guys are. Ooorah!

PS - Sanjayrupta Pravati is reading Jihad for Dummies His parents made him a poster boy for a prophylactic company when he was born, scarred the little monkey for life!

Yeah, I know...
Sir, the private was instructed in the history of the Marine Corps and the private forgot that Chosin Resevoir was before Hue, Sir! (time to go find a Frog that needs a push start) Still, you MSG guys did real good.

I was one of the Marines off the coast for the Rescue Mission. I never got to leave the boat, I'd be lying to say I didn't want to kill every man, woman, and child in Iran back then. With the politics the way they are now, there is no doubt that Jimmy Carter was a total failure of a President to not have declared war then.

You guys see that Joe Subic got busted for insurance fraud??

link

FormerHostage,

Thanks for sharing your story, and thanks to IMAO for hosting you here. I actually have the book Guests of the Ayatollah at home (borrowed from the library), so I am reading it as my kids allow me the time to do so.

We continue to hope and pray that the Iranian people are liberated from the barbarians who rule them at the point of a gun. From the book, it was interesting to read how so many were lining up for U.S. visas to get out of the place in advance of the mullahs taking over.

FormerHostage - it's because of guys like you that I have more respect for the Marines than any other service (and I'm retired Air Force).

No one here seems to have brought up a recent hostage taking of US military that completely embarassed the US. Remember that little incident where the Chinese struck and disabled an EP-3 in international airspace? And then how they forced it to land in Chinese territory, thereby providing the Chinese with an intelligence bonanza worth untold amounts. The crew's performance left a lot to be desired...

FormerHostage, I'd like to send you some ammo.
let me know what kind and where to send it.

HKpistole at Yahoo.com

Actually, I don't think there was much to worry about with that incident in China. After all, they probably already bought all that stuff from Clinton.

Former Hostage,
Things you have written over the years made it apparent when and where you came by the monicker. I am glad you decided to come clean. Accept the thanks of an Old Squid, who was in his own second hitch at the time.

shortjockrupture,
I'm curious about what you wrote. How did you force the guards to give you homosexual contact? We are all aware of your proclivities, but we thought the guards were straight.

FormerHostage,

I've often seen your user name and was always curious about its context. Thanks for telling your story. Inter-service rivalry aside, this former Soldier sends you a huge Semper Fi.

Semper Fi, FormerHostage! Thanks for sharing that bit with us and I'm glad you made it home safe.

I was only about ten when the Iranians took you guys hostage. It still makes me angry to this day.

TinSoldier
Sgt., USMC 1988-1994
SSG, Army National Guard 2001-2005

FormerHostage,

I never served in the military, but I have always had the utmost respect and appreciation for everybody who serves and who has ever served in our armed forces.

I see you don't like to be thought of as a hero, but I'm afraid that's a tag your going to have to be stuck with. You and the rest of your fellow Marines (sans Subic) did what 99% of us could probably never do. Resisting the enemy in the worst possible circumstances. God Bless each and every one of you!

Former Hostage,
Thanks for what you did and for remaining true to your beliefs. I’m retired AF and always have had great respect for the Marines. Whenever I hear dialogue about the military I’m reminded of this quote “People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf.” George Orwell. Some people just don’t understand that and never will.

God Bless you and the United States of America

I was linked to your site from national review. Your story has inspired me enough to run out and purchase the book, "Guests of the Ayatollah" I was a young child in 1979 but remember seeing the daily day count on the nightly news. I have a question if any former hostage cares to answer. What were your views of President Carter both during and after the crisis? I saw a documentary where one former hostage was quoted as saying that President Carter met in private with the hostages after the release. This former hostage said he had refused to shake Carter's hand before the meeting but hugged him after the meeting. I found this to be highly suspect but of course would never doubt it had happened if the former hostage said it did. It's just difficult for me to understand such a transformation. What could Carter possibly have said? God Bless you for your sacrifice

>

It probably wasn't a hug.. more like a body to body Suplex...that the Secret Service would have had to interfere with.

He could have said, "I am sorry.. I am going to go out on my boat.. and meet my rabbit..err fate..err Bun-bun."

Every day I thank God for the US Marines, at least once.

Great story. Thanks for sharing it. There's a whole new generation of jarheads in Iraq cut from the same cloth!

FormerHostage...
I was 16 at the time. I remember being very angry and I had little red heart foil stickers that I put on my calendar every day to remember all of you. I once thought that the Hallmark store where I bought my stickers was going to run out- so I spent two weeks worth of babysitting money to stock up...I still have one unopened package. I was so happy when it was over, but I wondered would you all be able to get back to life after that...Thank God, the Marines made you tough and you are doing okay! From a Hoo-ah to a Hoo-rah...Semper fi! (and I,too would rather die than give up more than than my name,rank and ssn.

Since we are talking about exteme cases of captivity, have we forgotten about Jessica Lynch and the slack over all that event and people's sentiment etc?? Fair is fair in the love of War. If anyone wnats to read insight of captivity and military occupational hazard.. read Bravo 2-0.

FormerHostage,
Thank you for your service and your honor when the time of challenge was at hand. Thankfully, when I was a soldier I never faced a challenge like yours or the 15 Brits. I do know that I asked myself frequently if I would be a true soldier in such a situation or find myself a coward. You never get to know unless you are tested by fire.

I don't know what the training is for the Brits, or the orders they were under. I do know that their command let them down and then their country and allies let them down. The most irritating thing about this incident was the smiles and glad-handing from captured to captors.

God save us from those that can not take a stand and those that force us to take that stand.

Dave

You are an honor to Corps, God, and Country.

I was not in the military but I salute you and your service.

Thank you for giving me and my family our freedom.

FormerHostage - don't take this wrong, but you need to change your screen-name. I mean, they may have had your body in captivity, but it sounds to me like you OWNED those SOBs.

Gunga said:
but it sounds to me like you OWNED those SOBs.

That's pwn3d as we hepcats like to say.

Former -

there isn't much in the way of gratitude or eloquence that i could add to what has already been placed in the record here. But your description of how you guys fought back against the monkeys was priceless and unforgettable.

thanks for your service to this country,
and for sharing your story.

It needs to be heard.

Semper Fi. Carry On.

FormerHostage,
I was aboard the USS Okinawa with the ARG parked just South of Chabahar during the last few months of your captivity. Needless to say, every one of us out there that was thinking about you all the time. I've always hoped we had at least a little to do with getting you back home. I was never a Marine, but at least I'm honored to have driven you guys to work.

Great post. The part about training emphasizes that it's not the men but the culture that's at fault here. And that goes even more so when you recognize this distinction: The Iranians knew that if they killed the Americans, we'd invade their then-weak country and lay waste to it, Vietnam or no Vietnam, Carter or no Carter. And the Iranians now know that if they'd killed the British, they have to go through some diplomatic unpleasantries for killing foreigners without plausible deniability. When you know you're backed up by the full force of a great nation, you tend to be more likely to back that nation through your actions.

My memory of the event was I was scared. Barely in for a year, I was stationed on Okinawa, Japan and it was very likely we would be deployed to the region shortly.

Years later my brother shared with me his own tale of how they trained for a combat drop (500 feet) from a Boeing 707. - The rear boarding passage of a 707 lies UNDER the tail of the jet. He explained a fiberglass slide was fashioned over the stairs and they practiced jumping out the back.

In training, the hatch would be opened, but the wind pressure of traveling at ~200 mph caused the door to shut as each SEAL jumped, and it made for a very dangerous exercise, but train they did.

To rescue the hostages, (that is, eliminate their tormentors,) they were to be disguised as a civilian, commercial flight that went, "ahem" off-course when the time came. . . followed (hopefully) with a hasty extraction.

I am ever thankful President Reagan scared the Hell out of those Iranian "students" enough to release the hostages shortly after he took office. Keeping my brother and I out of harm's way.

Say a prayer tonight for the Army Delta Force team that died, when their helicopters collided in the desert, in preparation to do just that.

Semper fi,
Rick

Wow, 67 people duped. Not bad Mr. FormerHostage.

But I fail to see why you would want to portray yourself in such a negative light (claiming you did not do what the Iranians told you to). Did you not understand that they may cause you physical harm by not complying? Is it not a little stupid to do something like that? Just do what they tell you and everything will be fine! It's not like you were handing over the nuclear bomb codes, all you had to do is smile and be friendly and helpful to them and everything you wanted could be given to you!

These British soldiers seem to be more sensible (shocking, Europeans knowing how to act better than Yankees) by maturely accepting that they are captured, and being as helpful as possible to facilitate their own release. As a result, none of them were harmed, none were mistreated, and all are now home safely with their families. As opposed to your own bullheadedness, which made you stay there for well over a year and got your President kicked out of office (letting your Commander down like that doesn't seem too loyal to me).

But the most humorous part is how many people fawn over types like yourself. Oh, you're a hero and you're so brave can I touch your muscle? Just because you were too stubborn to see the reasonable course of action. Are all Americans like this? Do they all unthinkingly praise that which they should be embarassed by? Of course, this is a neocon website, and so the results are skewed. As idiotic as America looks sometimes, one can hardly say that the majority of her citizens would respond as everybody has to you.

So build up your ego while you can Mr. GI Joe. Continue to listen to the unthinking cheers the pro-war buffoons pile on top of your jarhead. Only deep in your heart may you know I am the right one. And you will, oh you will. But stop with the neocon chanting against the English soldiers. They make their nation proud by their actions. Can you say the same of your own actions, when you look deep within your self?

Sanjayrupta you will never understand what this is all about you don't live your life thinking anything is worth fighting over or dying for. You also can't understand what selfless sacrifice is.

FH,

Semper Fidelis Devil-Dog!

Oorah!

thebronze
(Former 1/1 and 3/1 Marine)

To Sanjayrupta Pravati,

In the immortal words of John Stuart Mill:

"War is an ugly thing, but not the ugliest of things. The decayed and degraded state of moral and patriotic feeling which thinks that nothing is worth war is much worse. The person who has nothing for which he is willing to fight, nothing which is more important than his own personal safety, is a miserable creature and has
no chance of being free unless made and kept so
by the exertions of better men than himself"

"Sanyay" writes "Just do what they tell you and everything will be fine! It's not like you were handing over the nuclear bomb codes, all you had to do is smile and be friendly and helpful to them and everything you wanted could be given to you!"

I wasn't aware the Indians were trained to bend over and take it up the a$$. Thanks for clarifying that.

The only history British Marines have is EU and UN? Are you serious? There were British Royal Marines even before the United States was a country. Furthermore, take a look at the USMC dress uniform and the USMC insignia, a direct copy (rip off) of the British Royal Marines. Emulation is the highest form of compliment. Add to that the fact that the Royal Marines have to do 32 weeks basic training before they can wear a green beret....how long do the amatuers in the USMC have to train for...16 weeks or something ridiculous like that. The Royal Marines are commandos and are considered a "special Forces" regiment due to the varied roles they are trained for in warfare and recon..unlike the USMC who are just an over rated infantry unit with the exeption of USMC Force Recon, the rest of the USMC are just ordinary "Marines". Not "special Forces" and definately NOT "Commandos". Royal Marines and the British Paratroop Regiment are trained extensively not only for infantry duties, but also for commando, reconaissence and counter terrorism duties.
I have respect for the guys of Recon that I have served next to, they were what I would call professional marines, taught to think for themselves in the field. The regular USMC Marines however gave me the impression of gung ho amateurs that cant think for themselves in a combat situation...if they lost a leader or an officer they would be ******.
Before anyone counters my comment....take a look at your US Rangers.......initiated and based on British Special Forces proceedures from the get go.
As for comments about the captured Royal Marines breaking under interrogation from the Iranians? Wheres the proof of that? Because they were smiling and joking around when they were freed? It is British Forces policy to give only name Rank and serial number when captured and just like the USMC and US Army the British Marines were probably under strict orders not to open fire or to antagonise their captors....like doing something stupid like giving them the finger as you are about to leave...thats the sort of stupid stunt that gets you or a commrade killed.
So....to sum up.....before bad mouthing and spreading untruths about an older, more experienced, more professional Marine Corp Regiment maybe you should have remembered a few weeks back when Royal Marines strapped themselves to the sides of an Apache and went BACK INTO a fire fight to retrieve the body of a dead comrade in Afghanistan. I have yet to hear of any of the USMC doing a similar suicidal act of bravery since the "war on terror" began.
I am not saying that the USMC is not a useless outfit..they are good at what they do....but they are NOT Commando's or Special Forces....Royal Marines ARE!!!!

Seems this country is entering a future of no offense, we try not to offend the enemy or harm them. Too many times our soldiers are brought up on charges for doing their duty, if the enemy don't like it, call foul and put our soldiers on trial. Gone are the days of hit 'em fast and hard, allowing troops to do as trained, work more as a police force with the media at the wheel. You go as popularity directs, popularity controlled by the medias twist of truth and facts, seems our military isn't qualified to dictate it's next move and if they are effective.
Your actions were truly Marine, you've done your job of keeping the Corp alive, hope to never see it watered down.
Semper Fidelis
HOORAH!!

"So build up your ego while you can Mr. GI Joe. Continue to listen to the unthinking cheers the pro-war buffoons...."

I've figured out who Sanjay is:

Hans: Just another American who saw too many movies as a child? Another orphan of a bankrupt culture who thinks he's John Wayne, Rambo, Marshall Dillon?

John: I was always kind of partial to Roy Rogers, actually. I really liked those sequined shirts.

Hans: Do you really think you have a chance against us, Mr. Cowboy?

John: Yippee-kay-yea, motherfucker.

-

The monkey thing really got to you didn't it?

All I can say is:

God Bless the United States Marine Corps

I can't tell you how proud I am to have my son, Matt the Marine, in the same organization as FormerHostage. My he live up to your great example, sir.

>Wow, 67 people duped. Not bad Mr. FormerHostage.

Uh, no, just 1 person deluding himself. Deny documented history all you like, you just embarrass yourself.

Real Commando:

>I have yet to hear of any of the USMC doing a >similar suicidal act of bravery since the "war on >terror" began.

Google the name "Brian Chontosh" and get back to us.

"The regular USMC Marines however gave me the impression of gung ho amateurs that cant think for themselves in a combat situation...if they lost a leader or an officer they would be ******."

Just goes to show how little you know.

Command resposibility is down to the Corporal level in the Corps.

So, no, they wouldn't be ******.

>"These British soldiers seem to be more sensible (shocking, Europeans knowing how to act better than Yankees) by maturely accepting that they are captured, and being as helpful as possible to facilitate their own release. As a result, none of them were harmed, none were mistreated, and all are now home safely with their families."

Uh, yeah

just like this guy

link

And her...

link

Canadian journalist 'beaten to death'

Iran has acknowledged that a Canadian-Iranian photojournalist was beaten to death after her arrest outside a prison in Tehran. Vice President Ali Abtahi said Zahra Kazemi died "of a brain haemorrhage resulting from beatings".

Ms Kazemi, 54, was detained on 23 June for taking pictures of Tehran's Evin prison. She was later pronounced dead after falling into a coma

--------

'Course these are all just made up, right?

I was honored at 10 years old to march in a 4th of July parade with that one of your comardes. Your story just put courage and strength and everthing that is wonderful about America into prospective. Thank You for sharing that time with us and for being one of the many, the proud, the marines.

Scotchtape123,
"I'm just wondering, why even sign the "confession/denunciation" at all, even using a fake name?"

Where's the fun in that? Why just resist when you can resist and pull the chimps chain at the same time!!

"So build up your ego while you can Mr. GI Joe. Continue to listen to the unthinking cheers the pro-war buffoons...."

Sanjay must be the love child of Tokyo Rose and Lord Haw Haw.

A Real Commando, you reflect poorly on the rest of your legendary comrades -- not as poorly as most of those captured by the Iranians, of course, but still quite poorly. Complying with your captors and making every statement they ask you to make is collaboration, not bravery. I choose to hold out hope that the rest of your regiment is more respectable than the individuals we all watched on the news. Bragging about how Royal Marines are suicidally brave, compared to US Marines who supposedly can't think for themselves, is hilarious in the aftermath of this event. I don't know where the failure was in the training of these men and their officers, but there was a failure. These men disgraced the Royal Marines.

And if you want suicidal bravery, try looking up the names of Jason Dunham and Rafael Peralta.

I have a question that I think Former Hostage could answer. He mentioned Sgt. Subic, the collaborator. I also heard that the African-American Marines who were released early were later shunned by their colleagues and all subsequently left the Corps. Is this true?

""Just goes to show how little you know.

Command resposibility is down to the Corporal level in the Corps.

So, no, they wouldn't be ******."" And when the Corporal gets a bullet in his head all the other cowboys haven't had sufficient training to adapt and think for themselves. I've served next to the USMC and as I said...I only came out of that with kind of respect for "Recon"...because I think the Recon boys would be able to cut it in a Royal Marine regiment and have a vastly more professional attitude to their job...the regulars just ain't professional enough in their attitudes and didnt have half as much boot camp training as they'd need. . Its all that brainwashed bollocks about "The Corp, God, Country and my baby".

As for Brian Chontosh...yup very impressive a well deserved brag rag for that endevour....BUT...the fight came to him...like I said before..the Royal Marines that strapped themselves onto the outside of Apache's went BACK into the firefight for a second time to get the body of an already fallen comrade.

I didn't want to get into a who's the best argument here...my initial comment was about the former hostage Marine saying how they gave the Iranians a hard time and gave them the bird etc etc etc while captives and then because the British forces recently held captive were released after less than a month he assumes they collaborated. NO..maybe they just didnt make their own situation worse by acting like assholes to a hostile captor....no wonder he spend 444 days in captivity.....if in fact he really did.

A Real Commando -- I'm sorry you feel that way. When I was in the Marines we practically worshiped the Royal Marines. Uncle Sam's Misguided Children know their history and know where we've come from.

I never knew there was a rivalry between the USMC and the Royal Marine Corps. I've always thought of the two groups as brethren.

""A Real Commando, you reflect poorly on the rest of your legendary comrades -- not as poorly as most of those captured by the Iranians, of course, but still quite poorly. Complying with your captors and making every statement they ask you to make is collaboration, not bravery. I choose to hold out hope that the rest of your regiment is more respectable than the individuals we all watched on the news. Bragging about how Royal Marines are suicidally brave, compared to US Marines who supposedly can't think for themselves, is hilarious in the aftermath of this event. I don't know where the failure was in the training of these men and their officers, but there was a failure. These men disgraced the Royal Marines.

And if you want suicidal bravery, try looking up the names of Jason Dunham and Rafael Peralta.""

OK Einstein, you stay a hostage getting the crap kicked out of you everyday for flipping the bird to your captors, being starved, tortured and being a bitch for some queer Iranian.
Meanwhile, I'll go on Raghead TV and say "Allah is great, I've sucked Mohammeds cock and Tony Blair and the British government are all arseholes", then be released a week later and back with my unit 2 weeks after that while you're forced fed Iranian sausage. Who's more use to his regiment then? Me or you?

I'll give you your due....you are brave...but you're also dumb. You more use with a gun than in a cell.

Tin soldier. I would agree with you but it seems there is a difference of the best way out of a hostage situation and back to your regiment with the 2 Corps. And I'm sorry but I do think the recon boys are a cut above the rest.

Besides.....Im jealous of all the bloody Gucci kit you lot get while we have to fight with stuff from ToysRus.

"maybe they just didnt make their own situation worse by acting like assholes to a hostile captor....no wonder he spend 444 days in captivity....."

Commando, I perfectly understand defensive here, but

Some of the hostages acted like assholes to their captors. Subic was much nicer. They were both released at the same time.

The Royal Marines have a long history and a lot to it.

Arguing "no wonder they were held hostage for so long, they treated the hostage-takers who threatened to kill them badly"--is somewhere in the ballpark in my book as "no wonder she was brutally raped, she wore a short skirt...she should have just sat back and not struggled..."

I understand you being defensive, but I'll pass on this. For the record, if there are any terrorists who are considering taking me hostage, I don't we'll get along too well while you're threatening to kill me unless I renounce and badmouth my country on national TV - sorry, it's just the way it has to be.

"...because I think the Recon boys would be able to cut it in a Royal Marine regiment and have a vastly more professional attitude to their job."

What do you mean, surrender without a fight and then collaborate with the enemy who took you hostage?

Try going back and rereading Former Hostage's post.

I think you missed the point of the whole story.

Oh, wait, there's more:

"Meanwhile, I'll go on Raghead TV and say "Allah is great, I've sucked Mohammeds cock and Tony Blair and the British government are all arseholes", then be released a week later and back with my unit 2 weeks after that while you're forced fed Iranian sausage. Who's more use to his regiment then? Me or you?"

Yeah, a collaborationist, alright.

And if you had done what you claim, if I were your CO, you'd be up on charges so fast your head would spin.

What good are you to the Regiment when you're in a British military goal?

>"Meanwhile, I'll go on Raghead TV and say "Allah is great, I've sucked Mohammeds cock and Tony Blair and the British government are all arseholes", then be released a week later and back with my unit 2 weeks after that while you're forced fed Iranian sausage. Who's more use to his regiment then? Me or you?

I'll give you your due....you are brave...but you're also dumb. You more use with a gun than in a cell."

What was it Churchill said about appeasers?

Who do you think he would have had more respect for?

Commando, if your unit is surrendering without a fight when you face the enemy, it doesn't do much good to be back with them, does it? I'm not trying to disparage the Royal Marines at all; however, the assumption that one is more useful to one's unit alive than dead is simply not always true.

Further, in a war of ideas and worldviews such as this (and most other counterinsurgencies), impressions and information are more important than battlefield victories. For example, Tet was an allied tactical victory, but a strategic victory for the commies because it was spun properly by the media and their communist buddies. While all the higher-ups in the world community may think Ahmadenijad is a dick, he just made Iran look a helluva lot more powerful to his own people by having British troops verbally fellating him on TV. That victory is far more important strategically than diplomatically getting some hostages out of harm's way.

And you yourself have acknowledged the admirableness of suicidal bravery, for which I commend you. Do you really think the reputation of the Royal Marines would be better served by immediate and total surrender than by gallant resistance to the last man?

"Europeans knowing how to act better than Yankees"

Yes, from that bastion of etiquette that brought us Hitler, Franco and Mussolini. The Europeans are such good role models.

Tell ya what Sanjyapper, when America comes up with someone who emulates your role models, send me a memo.

Pull my finger.
*snort*
You Marines ain't got a lick of sense.
Thank God.
USN(Ret)

Commando:

Ever see "Bridge on the River Kwai"?

When your lads do heroic things - as the Royal Marines who strapped themselves onto US Army Apaches or Bravo Two Zero, or your recent VC Winner did - you get props.

When they do cowardly things like collaborate with the enemy, it gives your service a black eye and you're in for humiliation. Like now. I cannot BELIEVE that you are recommending collaboration because it might get you back to your unit faster. Out of curiosity, what are the Royal Marines' standing orders upon capture? Do they allow for collaboration, or do they require that you resist to the limits of your ability?

I know what the standing orders are in the United States Army Reserve. And they don't include collaborating with the enemy under any circumstances.

Orion

"As for comments about the captured Royal Marines breaking under interrogation from the Iranians? Wheres the proof of that? Because they were smiling and joking around when they were freed?"

How about this from one of your beloved Royal Marines (surely an unimpeachable source):
One of the hostages, Dean Harris, 30, an acting sergeant in the Royal Marines, told a Sunday Times reporter yesterday: “I want £70,000. That is based on what the others have told me they have been offered. I know Faye has been offered a heck more than that. I am worth it because I was one of only two who didn’t crack.”

Now he was upholding the honor of the RM's. You, not so much by starting up a pissing contest.

"...like doing something stupid like giving them the finger as you are about to leave...thats the sort of stupid stunt that gets you or a commrade killed."

Apparently not. He's still alive, as are his comrades.

"So....to sum up.....before bad mouthing and spreading untruths about an older, more experienced, more professional Marine Corp Regiment maybe you should have remembered a few weeks back when Royal Marines strapped themselves to the sides of an Apache and went BACK INTO a fire fight to retrieve the body of a dead comrade in Afghanistan. I have yet to hear of any of the USMC doing a similar suicidal act of bravery since the "war on terror" began."

You mean like the U.S. Marine pilot that was recently awarded the Distinguished Flying Cross from Queen Victoria, Major William Chesarek, for his actions in the very incident you describe?

A Real Commando should know when to keep quiet.

(I feel bad smacking down an RM, but he asked for it!)

How many cowards in history have hidden behind the "I was only doing the smart thing" defense?

There are no medals for intellectual vanity. And intellectually vanity won't take the smell of piss out or your pants.

...out OF your pants.

Everyone please.

The Royal Marines are a fine outfit as is the USMC. They are both professional fighting men and women of the highest caliber. As for who is better or worse, I don't care. I know I would feel well protected with a squad from either group around.

The fact remains that what the 15 Brits did and the way they did it aided their captors. There are those that think they did the smart thing, the reasonable thing. The problem is they were in an unreasonable situation and not civilians.

I do not know the code of conduct for the Royal Marine, but for a US soldier you are to resist aiding your captors. It is known that you will break, but you are to put up the struggle, and you are defiantly not to be seen as enjoying helping your captors.

The ease of capture (not the fault of the 15 but their command and ROE), the quick and hearty capitulation, and the lack of reprisal from Britain, the EU, and the US means that we will see this happen again. At the very least it means that we will let Iranian vessels pass without inspection.

No matter the unit type, Royal Marine, USMC, SEAL, etc., all can make poor judgment calls and all have members more prone to cooperation than others. This is especially true of leadership. I don't fault the Royal Marines for the actions of the 15 and I don't fault the US Army for the actions of Sgt Subic or Benedict Arnold. Individuals make their own decisions. Further, I have never been confronted with such duress. I hope that I would stand tall, but I could simply fail.

The 15 made it too easy and I am saddened by the fact that they were shown smiling and having fun while with their captors. I am further saddened by their attempts at profiteering from this incident.

More importantly I am repulsed by the inaction of the British and American governments, the EU, and the command of the 15.

Dave hit the nail on the head.

This is the last post I'm making on this thread because it's turned into a pissing contest.

The troll is here just to gain attention so I remind everyone about the reason you don't wrestle with a pig.

Commando, I'm sorry if I offended you. I have the highest respect for the Royal Marines and I'm quite aware of how rigorous their training is. The Royal Marines held their fire as ordered (as did we) but can you really believe that those who went back for their comrades strapped to wings (big brass ones and kudos to each) would really be proud of how these Marines acted in captivity? Personally, I was embarrassed for your organization.

Your people got out because Imanutjob thought it was politically expedient to do so, not the guards. Therefore, regardless of how they acted, the would get out when Iran let them out. How do you think that films of their smiling faces and hand shaking are going to play out on the World stage? Hell, how did it play out on the BBC? Your people were kidnapped at gunpoint in Iraqi waters and held against their will and what was the general theme? "Well, the Iranians are reasonable people, let's talk with them." Would that have been the meme if you all were aware of the female sailor being stripped and threatened?

No one was hurt this time. This time! But what about next time, and make no mistake, if the UK continues to patrol the Persian Gulf this will happen again. Is it a strange coincidence that Argentina is now making noises about it's sovereignty over the Falklands?

As for resistance when held captive, we Yanks have our training and you Brits have yours. Which is best? Who knows. I can only state that the idea of cooperating even in the smallest way with the enemy is abhorrent to 99.99% of US servicemen.

Does that make us a bunch of cowboy assholes? Yep, and damn proud of it too.

Instead of raking us over the coals, maybe you should take it out on your government and your own society. The ones that can't really understand the pride you have in your history and traditions, treat your military as a char force and eviscerate your budgets, and believe that there is no situation that can't be solved by simply expressing "grave concerns" until the point comes where they throw you poor sods into the meat grinder with one hand tied behind your back (and your back covered by the E.U.).

For everyone else. Thanks for the thoughts but keep in mind that today's American Armed Forces are arguably the most professional, best trained, and best equipped in History. I joined a couple of years after Vietnam and in those days Commando's description of clueless troops was more often than not spot on. That was then, this is now. Today, they're not all rocket scientists but not just cannon fodder either. They make me proud to have preceded them and jealous that I can't be with them (not lean, still mean, just another retired Marine).

I'm posting this before reading the other comments, so bear with me.

This post made me tear up, but not in a bad way. Those are tears of pride at a story of bravery and hardship. FormerHostage, thank you. As a former Navy enlistee, who's married to a squid still in, I take immense pride in our military, especially in the Navy and the Marines. I used to work with several Marines, and not only are they tough SOBs, they're some of the most intelligent and compassionate people ever.

I can't imagine being in a hostage situation, in fact that's one reason I didn't go Air Crew (I was a linguist). I'd probably have been a wimp. I give it up to those that have been through it, and walked away knowing they had done the right thing in that situation. I'm passing on the link to this post so that others can get a glimpse of true heroism (every service member is a hero in my book, my 4yo daughter 100% agrees). Thank you.

When I was in the Army in Vietnam, I figured that the worst thing that could happen would be to be taken hostage; second worst would be to be maimed for life.

Thank you, former hostage. I can appreciate what you went through, even if I cannot comprehend it and, thank God, did not have to ensure it.

To the men and women who serve gallantly under our flag and others around the world (and for those of us who do not): Those who cannot learn from history are doomed to repeat it.

Dave is correct.
The U.S. Military Code of Conduct has not changed since WWII.
It has not needed to.
It worked then exactly as it works today.

You all talk of being men! None of you are a man! I've known REAL MEN!1!!! I've been with REAL MEN!!!1! Their strong rough hands holding me down, their musk and garlic breath filling my nostrils and making me dizzy. The giddy anticipation as I bite down on the pillow and then...the sweet, sweet violation.

Ha! I've taken it like a man more than any of you!

Correction: "...U.S. Marine pilot that was recently awarded the Distinguished Flying Cross from Queen Elizabeth II, Major William Chesarek..."

Marines (UK or US) are men of great courage, and deserve our respect and admiration. We are today free thanks to the actions of warriors like them.

Something else to consider...

The United States Marine Corps has a strength of about 170,000+ Marines.

The Royal Navy and the Royal Marines COMBINED have a strength of about 35,000.

Naturally, there will be differences in focus of training, and so on with such a difference in size.

Orion

FormerHostage: Thank you.

Does that make us a bunch of cowboy assholes? Yep, and damn proud of it too.

It was men like you that inspired me to do twenty some years of service as an American Fighting Man. Never managed to do anything heroic during that time. Saved a few lives here and there, managed to convince a few folks that "America" and Americans aren't nearly the devils we're made out to be, and best of all, managed to train a few sailors what it means to be an American Fighting Man (or, for that matter, Woman).

Thanks for the thoughts but keep in mind that today's American Armed Forces are arguably the most professional, best trained, and best equipped in History.

In spite of Commando's ruffled feathers and spot of pissiness, I maintain the highest respect for my Marines, be they Royal or Uncle Sam's Misguided, so

Don't mess with my Marines!

And for jane, who posted:

... all I can say is that I don't like "pretty" boys - far too many men have gone the weak route - we want you back as guys, guys! US Marines are the best!!!

So, cowboy up!

First off, Hooah FormerHostage

"I didn't want to get into a who's the best argument here."

Yes, you did, or you wouldn't have started a novel-sized rant (for a blog) about how immature the USMC is compared to the Royal Marines. Personally I think Royal Marines are historically tougher, and that stunt with the AH-1s was heroism of the highest calibre.

However, our Marines aren't trained to be a semi-commando force like yours are. They're amphibious infantry. You're comparing tangerines and oranges. We have more land to worry about than you guys usually do, so we have more conventional infantry with less focus on amphibious and naval capabilities. Marines filled that gap for us. We made Recon Marine, SEAL, Delta, Rangers, et al. to be our SF.

"OK Einstein, you stay a hostage getting the crap kicked out of you everyday for flipping the bird to your captors, being starved, tortured and being a bitch for some queer Iranian.
Meanwhile, I'll go on Raghead TV and say "Allah is great, I've sucked Mohammeds cock and Tony Blair and the British government are all arseholes", then be released a week later and back with my unit 2 weeks after that while you're forced fed Iranian sausage. Who's more use to his regiment then? Me or you?"

Other aspects of this have been covered already, so I'll just go with the affect on your regiment. It just shows you're what American armed forces call a "Buddy F*cker". They'll know the first time anything bad goes down that you'll puss out in your own self-interest, potentially leaving them holding the bag (and a bag that may get them killed). As such they may 'forget' to watch your back as closely as they had before because they know you're watching your own instead of theirs as closely as you should be. This is detrimental to everyone in your regiment.

Will the real Brits please stand up?

Ck Michael Yon's post at...
link