old people, that's who

From the media's perspective, Falwell was to white Christians what Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton are to black Christians.

Convenient, accessible, expressive, and not camera-shy. Also, they had easy access to broadcast equipment and facilities for quick reactions to current events, regardless of how ill-informed they are.

It's about 20 years too late for that question.
People used to love him, religious types because he made being religious mainstream-acceptable.
Lefty/non-religious types loved him because they got to say, "The Moral Majority (which is neither)".
If I had a dollar for every time I heard that lame ass paraphrasing of a remark about the Holy Roman Empire, well, I'd have a lot of dollars.

I am an atheist, former born-again Christian. I was impressed at the love and kindness shown by Falwell, despite his deserved reputation for intolerance. First and foremost, Falwell wanted people to believe in the Gospel and to accept Jesus as Lord. I am more inclined to accept Christopher Hitchens view of the Gospel than Falwell's, but Falwell was very centered on his primary goal.

My beliefs are my own. They usually draw ridicule/bannishment, but I don't take any televised religion seriously.

If he angered the left, his was a life lived well.

Hard to argue with pistole here, but as an evangelical Christian who's been involved in Christian leadership for a while, I never really appreciated his comments on current affairs. 'Course, the period of history for which I have been an observant participant is limited to about a decade, so I probably am not in the best position to judge. I would have rather seen more "moderate" Christian leaders speaking up...

Of course, with all the political speaking up that I don't like, those two have done a great job in other, less-publicized areas of their life, as I find myself reminding my fellow students now and again.

If you think the media portrayed Jerry Falwell (the man or his views) accurately, I've got a few charred monkey carcasses you might want to purchase.

I personally couldn't stand him, but I give him a "10" for his ability to get the leftards so worked up that they couldn't speak coherently. LOL

I always felt Falwell was a bit of a blowhard, even at the time I was a born-againer. I felt much more comfortable when Robertson spoke; this was before some of his comments starting coming from the deep end. To me the two men helped to create the KosKids and their ilk by giving them the personalization of their inner Shadow and, thus, gave them something to feed their inner madness. I suppose that, in a way, that is good: it exposed their psychosis and will make them dead between the ages of 40-50. So good for you, Jerry and Pat.

During my brief infatuation with far left ideas and 60s nostalgia (along with the occult), I felt that these men were the Devil.

As I became older and a little wiser, not to mention much calmer, I came to realize that these guys really cared for what they believed. Passion and faith can be wonderful things when they have an underpinning in something real. When they are used for the Prog-Sec agenda they are an abomination.

In short, I think those two men were lighting rods to draw the ire of the Left and the MSM. I suppose that their going off the deep end every once in a while allowed those of us with less extreme views to push further Right (just like some extreme Lefties allow their fellow travelers to stake out claims just short of the Lunatic Fringe and seem "moderate"; but unlike the Right, the Left has too much fervor and seems intent on consuming everyone who is not a true believer).

What was I talking about?
Ah, well. We need guys like Falwell and the great Anne Coulter to push into the Libs' kitchen, put their feet to the fire, and piss them off.

I don't trust people that believe anything unwaiveringly, on the right or left.

I'm conservative to almost a point of fault, and I can't stand other conservatives almost as much as I can't stand liberals.

Nuke everything. That's the ticket.

This is why republicans suck. We have no loyalty and an annoying habit of stabbing each other in the back. Remember the Eleventh Commandment? They were conservatives. That means they're your buds. Don't pick on them unless they really, really deserve it. And they don't. Or didn't, in Falwell's case.

I wouldn't care if Robertson went on a killing spree. I'd still give a tongue lashing to any liberal who dared to insult him in my presence. Yeah, he sometimes has weird theology, but I can forgive him because the liberals hate him.

"I don't trust people that believe anything unwaiveringly, on the right or left."

Ringthingy - Is that an unwavering belief you have there or just kind of a rule of thumb? Are you surprised every morning when the sun rises in the East? You don't have an unwavering belief that your parents love you? You don't have an unwavering belief that 3,000 lawyers at the bottom of the ocean would be a good start? ...or are you just untrustworthy?

If it's an opinion or faith based belief, its pretty well the rule of thumb.

I was accused of being an Unemployed Hispanic leeching social security last week out of freaking no where on wizbang. It was hilarious.

I totally agree with Frank. That's probably why this is my fav blog to read =P

I do have an unwaivering belief that cats aren't water resistant. I guess I'm a hypocrite. Score!!

...or you're just untrustworthy.

This is a little off current topic, but I really miss the sections that Frank did in regards to the Bible. Being a religious fanatic. I appreciated the homur that can be found in the scriptures.

Falwell brought a lot of people to the faith.
I respect him for that.

However, politically, he made it seem like all Christians were religious police who wanted to establish a theocracy. That kinda hurt us.

While I don't agree with many of the things Rev. Falwell preached and believed, I truly believe that he is one person we can give credit to for bring religious conservatives into the political process. His Moral Majority gave religious conservatives the backing to speak about their beliefs.

On a personal level, I found him to be a truly nice man. The first time we met, I had a large glass of scotch in my hand. We got along great.

He had a great sense of humor as well. There was a man walking around the reception with a Bill Clinton mask on. He came up to Falwell and put his arm around Jerry. I immediately told ask the Rev. to hold it so I could get a picture. He laughed and said that would be great.

Rev. Falwell had his beliefs. I didn't agree with him on everything. But he never took things personally. Even Larry Flynt had nice things to say yesterday.

Oops. This score is Frank 0 ........ bigotry stranded at third when Unusual Candor and a few others make a triple play, also 0.

The man was a Christian. A fundamentalist Christian whom I didn't agree with all the time being a Lutheran, however that doesn't change the fact that he taught salvation through God's grace. For this he should be praised...along with giving fur balls to lefty tards like Chris Matthews and David Gregory!

While I don't subscribe to any of the TV preacher-leaches, I reckon if he was a pain-in-the-ass (so-to-speak) to the lefty-loonies, and the nutjob (again, so-to-speak!) gay community, and last but not least, the ACLU he couldn't have been all bad!

As a Catholic, I have a hard time understanding the theology of those Christian ministers who are so estranged from the historical understanding of Christ, the Scriptures, and what "Church" means that they become their own little "churches" in themselves. It is unfortunate that so many people have come to associate Christianity with blowhard televangelists, while never having seen the beautiful faith passed down through the centuries unchanged (despite some of those who were/are in charge).

The theeme seems to be " he pissed off liberals so kudos to him " Hold on here. Racists piss off libs. So do child abusers, dead beat dads, mass murderers and violent criminals. Should we give them kudos?

I'm not saying Jerry / Pat are any of those things, but they have both said completely assanine things and stood behind them. More than once. At some point, you have to tell even your best friend he/she is wrong. If they continue to be an idiot, you need to think about getting a new friend.

We are judged by the company we keep, like it or not. I'll stand with someone who's being attacked for an opinion or a belief if it's reasoned, but these two crossed into moonbat territory and built vacation homes there.

SarahK is missing from the comments. :)

Sorry to rain on the parade, but Pat Robertson isn't quite dead yet.

SarahK is missing from the comments. :)

Well, lots of my friends and their friends liked the man and felt crushed when he died. They're not stiff and prudish people, either.

Everyone says something that other people disagree with, but how much of what people have heard has not been twisted and taken out of context? Taking a side doesn't make you evil.
He apologized for that WTC comment anyways, so he must have felt that that was a knee-jerk thing to say himself, seeing as he didn't have record of backing down. The terrorists were evil themselves, and we didn't deserve the be attacked, but the sin we've allowed to flourish in our country makes society more open to danger. If that was his point, I'd have to agree with him.

What was it he said that we as conservatives don't like or feel the need to distance ourselves from? I know what his "caricature" was - idiot hater from the Bible belt - but I believe it was just that, a caricature by a media that doesn't know and can't understand Christianity.

Here's a link to a tribute by someone who actually knew him:

http://alifeinpages.blogspot.com/2007/05/dr-jerry-falwell.html

Might not have always agreed with him, but I respect those that have real beliefs and stand behind them, as opposed to opportunists who pretend to have beliefs when it creates a public platform for them (Al Gore, Michael Moore, Hillary Clinton, Bill Clinton, John Kerry, John Edwards...)

Several Christian themes come to mind when pondering the life of Mr. Falwell:

By their fruits shall ye know them

Love thy neighbor as thy self

I the Lord will forgive whom I will forgive, but unto you it is given to forgive all men

Hate the sin, love the sinner

With these ideals in mind one should remember that "the Church" is a hospital for sinners. There are no perfect people here within the confines of Christianity. All we can do is to try to do as the Lord would have us do, as we understand it, being guided by the Spirit, to the best of our abilities. I know that isn't one of the black and white answers that are so popular in todays culture but there it is.

Instead of opining on the virtues (or lack thereof) of these two gentlemen take a look at the following recent "in Christ's name" despot and let me know if you can respect this guy because he obviously has "real beliefs" and stands behind them.... to the detriment of every rational person on the planet.

http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=0e0_1178304529

I wish I could say this was a joke... or at least posthumously created due to some strange wrinkle in the fabric of time.

Falwell speaking for me would be like Al Sharpton speaking for Bill Cosby! It was never gonna happen!

Fred f&*ckin Phelps.....can we just put him and President 'Tom' under the same MOAB? It'd save the trouble with Iran - and I wouldn't have to hear from this idiot anymore. Better yet just sick the Fred on him. "Mental hospital Mr. Phelps - something you - and your whole congregation - may want to think about..."

I never was really into Falwell. Too busy trying to make a living to think about it. While I certainly didn't agree with some things he said, he could be forgiving, even understanding on occasion.

One of his most ironic friendships was Larry Flint. Yes, the 'Hustler' Larry Flint. They were bitter enemies for over 15 years. Falwell even sued Flint on one occasion for a few interesting satirical cartoons in the magazine. As Larry put it, "I hated him. But as my momma said, eventually you find something in common even with those you hate."

While they obviously didn't agree on one BIG thing (pron), they did agree on another big thing - free speech. They actually did several debates against each other in different venues (mostly small colleges) over the roles of religion and free speech in society. Or so the story goes. Supposedly they contributed to many of the same children's charities. Irony at its finest. I don't know about you, but I'm sure that chat must've been an interesting one.

Dejavoodoo, you're right. There's NOTHING Christian about Westboro. It's not what they say that's really disturbing but the almost vindictive aim at they take at people.
These are the people who paraded and ARE parading at soldier's graves. I don't really care if the person defending my country is a fag or not; the Bible says that the greatest love is that of giving your life up for the sake of others. I don't see him quoting that.

I hope no one compares Fallwell with him and his unholy flock. This guy's a lunatic; the worst you could say about Fallwell is he said a COUPLE of stupid things. Fallwell's corpse has more intelligence to this dude. :-p

While I may not have agreed with some of his theological tenets, one area JF clearly led was with his Moral Majority. Poll after poll indicates that most of America is concerned with moral issues such as abortion, pop music lyrics (rap, rock, whatever), etc. The majority of Americans are disturbed by our increasing desensitivity toward, and decreasing appreciation of, individual value. He should be eulogized, if for no other reason, as a man who placed proper emphasis on the creation valued by his Creator.

Frank - I guess this is why they admonish you not to speak ill of the dead.

Gunga, no, it's because they have eeerie powers.

While some may find I am contradicting my comment in Mr. Simon's post, Frank, my answer to your first question is, "Not Me". There are a number of folks whom I do not like, who try to speak for evangelical Christians. I don't like James Dobson. I really don't like Janet Parshall. I don't like the Caner Brothers. There is any number of folks in the broader evangelical movement whose theology and political application of their theology I do not like. But the church is made up of everyone who believes in Christ, and scripture instructs me to receive my brothers and sisters in Christ with the right hand of fellowship. I do draw the line at folks like Spong and Shouri who have denied the essence of the Gospel, and I suppose the Rev. Jackson would have been defrocked for adultery in a God-fearing denomination, but I should be careful before I criticize anyone in Christ.

"However, politically, he made it seem like all Christians were religious police who wanted to establish a theocracy. That kinda hurt us.
Posted by: Intellectual"

I think it's more like the looney left wanted to make us all religous police and blasted anything that he said that was a little off so loud you didn't hear anything else.

However, I never heard much from Fallwell. I did like Robertson's 700 club when I could get it. I follow Dobson Al little easier cause he's on the Radio, Fallwell and Robertson weren't last I checked. I noticed that the Looney left misquoted him, repeatedly.

Being a political cartoonist(only as a hobby), I find it insulting that the people who get paid to do it denegrate the art by drawing badly and not doing any research, or putting any thought into these things. It's like a serving a wine connoisoure cheap beer, not nice at all.

"However, politically, he made it seem like all Christians were religious police who wanted to establish a theocracy. That kinda hurt us.
Posted by: Intellectual"

I think it's more like the looney left wanted to make us all religous police and blasted anything that he said that was a little off so loud you didn't hear anything else.

However, I never heard much from Fallwell. I did like Robertson's 700 club when I could get it. I follow Dobson Al little easier cause he's on the Radio, Fallwell and Robertson weren't last I checked. I noticed that the Looney left misquoted him, repeatedly.

Being a political cartoonist(only as a hobby), I find it insulting that the people who get paid to do it denegrate the art by drawing badly and not doing any research, or putting any thought into these things. It's like a serving a wine connoisoure cheap beer, not nice at all.

I ask anybody here, "did you ever listen to Dobson or Falwell or any of the other demonized figures of the 'religous right'". The answer will invariably be no. That means that your opinions are completely informed by the media's portrayal and characterization of them. 'nough said.

"I ask anybody here, "did you ever listen to Dobson or Falwell or any of the other demonized figures of the 'religous right'". The answer will invariably be no. That means that your opinions are completely informed by the media's portrayal and characterization of them. 'nough said.

Posted by: sean"

Yes, I have. We received the "700 Club" and Falwell's ministry on the tellie. I used to watch both regularly, and contributed to Robertson's cause.

However, over time I found my thoughts on freedom and faith running in a direction that is contrary to most people. A personal relationship with my divinity (Vishnu) is more important than one that is derived from any supposed religious authority. Power and freedom come from within, as any that can be given by others can be taken away; I live as I need to regardless of who is in charge (this attitude also makes me healthier, as I do not go flying off the handle as do those at the far right and far left extremes).

That is hillarious FrankJ. You calling Jerry Falwell, "small mind(s)ed". What size brain do you have? And if it is larger than Falwells, why do you spew out middle school Fred Thompson facts everyday? You seem to be judging the man in a very public and back-handed way. It doesn't take a very large brain to do that. Please explain how he has made you look silly. Is your faith based on your vanity that you are a better Christian than he was? Did he somehow nullify your salvation? Please explain how you know that Falwell could not have been speaking for God. Do you have some proof that what he said was blasphemous? If not, what is the difference between you and the charge you make of Mr. Falwell? You obviously needed him to prove that what he said was true. I need you to prove that what he said wasn't. Surely with your large mind this is a simple task.

From all I know about him, which is not much, I love Jerry Falwell and agree 100% with all he said. Funny how those claiming to be conservative have to put the "disclaimer" "... although I may not agree..." or "although I don't like him..."
On that note, I also love James Dobson (wish he were my dad), Ann Coulter (in my perfect world she'd be like 10 years younger, 10 lbs more, and married to me), Ronald Reagan, and most of all, Jesus, without qualifications, buts, ifs, althoughs, despites.
Geez. When will we stop stabbing each other in the back? No wonder some said conservatives are a bunch of spineless p*ssies: b*tchy enough to stab each other but too coward to stand up to the left.