Well it looks like the decline of our country will continue unabated by the current President and politicians. Nothing changes with this new proposed law. In fact, the word is out now world wide 'come to the U.S. as soon as you can to automatically become a U.S. citizen just by showing up.' How long will the actual taxpaying citizens pay the medical and educational bills of these illegals. Eventually it will all come to a head, as infections do, and the lawful Americans will clean out the pus these illegals represent. You would think the ones that are here now would not want any more arrivals to further diminish wages and benefits. They're not that smart. Infections just run rampant until quelled by antibiotics. What will be the new antibiotics? Probably the middle class as always, violently taking the law in their own hands to repel the invaders. If not, 'goodbye to the America we once knew and loved.'

Well it looks like the decline of our country will continue unabated by the current President and politicians. Nothing changes with this new proposed law. In fact, the word is out now world wide 'come to the U.S. as soon as you can to automatically become a U.S. citizen just by showing up.' How long will the actual taxpaying citizens pay the medical and educational bills of these illegals. Eventually it will all come to a head, as infections do, and the lawful Americans will clean out the pus these illegals represent. You would think the ones that are here now would not want any more arrivals to further diminish wages and benefits. They're not that smart. Infections just run rampant until quelled by antibiotics. What will be the new antibiotics? Probably the middle class as always, violently taking the law in their own hands to repel the invaders. If not, 'goodbye to the America we once knew and loved.'

Group hug with Democrats?

That would make us unclean.

Last night on Brit Hume's panel Fred Barne's actually said, "As Juan just said..." and he was agreeing with Juan, "DNC-talking-points", Williams! Barnes was actually using his (Juan's) statement to bolster his own argument!

That's about like saying, "See, Sadly No! agrees with me" and expecting people to not point and laugh.

I have decided to write my prick Senator and ask how I can renounce my citizenship retroactively for the past several years. Once this is accomplished, I will expect my tax money back pronto (see I speak a foreign language) and if I don’t get it I will get a lawyer (paid for by the Federal Government as part of the new Immigration Reform Bill). I will then apply for college Free, Free, Free. I’m also thinking of any other crimes that I might want to commit before I get my spiffy new Z Visa which will essentially wipe away all my sins. I love my new country!

This is one of the reasons I've been strongly considering becoming a (gasp!) Libertarian. The Republicans have lost their backbone. Unfortunately, the Libertarians can't seem to track down any qualified candidates for presidential elections. So I'm stuck with a party that is spending like mad and is afraid of the democrat party. WTF? I mean heck. WTH?

[Caveat]

I am **not** saying I support the bill.

[/Caveat]

----

I'm willing to give a lot more credence to the comparison with the Italiam/Irish/etc. immigration at the turn of the century. Here's why:

There were far fewer restrictions on immigration back then. Your ancestors, my ancestors, and the ancestors of most people posting here were legal, but if the restrictions that are in place now were in place back then, it would have been very difficult if not impossible for a lot of them to get in. There was a time where if you weren't carrying diseases and weren't known to have a serious criminal record, you were in.

We need a secure border to stop terrorists. A group like La Raza is also a problem for the U.S., but the problem is rooted in the fact there's much less pressure to assimilate with everybody else today and that the bulk of immigrants are coming from one place (forget what region they're coming from--if most immigrants were from Romania 100 years, that would affect this country).

With the legal rules for immigratiton this restrictive, though, it ensures that--If a poor guy from Italy or Calcutta can't legally get in, we're going to get the bulk of immigrants for low paying jobs from the just one place, from wherever is closest to us-where it is feasible to sneak in.

WAL,
See, what you gave was a sensible explanation of your viewpoint. I'm not thinking the bill and the situation is as bad as everyone fears, but all the people for it just dismiss the opposition as "brown-people haters" and that's what angers me.

Get your stinking paws off me, you damned dirty ape!

Frank, no problem, like I said I don't support the bill either, though. (However, if it goes into effect, I've got an awesome tax shelter idea . . .)

Surprised? Surprised? Dr. Zira, I must caution you. Experimental brain surgery on these Congressmen is one thing, and I'm all in favor of it. But your behavior studies are another matter. To suggest that we can learn anything about nature from a study of Congressmen is sheer nonsense. Why, Congress is a nuisance. It eats up its food supply in the forest, then migrates to our green belts and ravages our crops. The sooner it is exterminated, the better.

For a damn, dirty ape you certainly have some intriguing ideas.

Of course, we are racists.
The left has two basic concepts incomprehensible to them: Ethics and Principle
Both of these ideals are regularly rejected by Lefties, since if they were accepted, the Left could not accept many of the things that their members do. Ideals and Principles are the basis for laws and customs. The Left regularly rejects both of these as being too restrictive. Since they refuse to acknowledge these two ideals, they do not feel the need to address or refute them. Frankly, they cannot refute these ideals, without having to accept that some of us believe in them, And that they may make sense if analyzed.
Rather than attempt to refute them, typically, the Lefties simply imply that racism (sexism, homophobia, etc) is the core that they are facing.
This relieves them from over-burdening their brains, and allows them to feel superior without actually having to work for it. They can claim a “moral victory” without having to defend their lack of morals.

Yes, I do object to the bills out of PRINCIPLE.

There is absolutely no valid comparison between early 20th Century immigration from Europe and late 20th Century ILLEGAL immigration form south of the border.
1) European immigrants came to become Americans.
2) European immigrants worked to integrate, and learn the language and customs.
3) the preponderance of people were skilled to semi-skilled, and valued education
4) European immigrants did not start their immigration by breaking the law.
I don't hate brown people .... I just detest criminals of ANY stripe. The best way to integrate the families of Mexican illegals is to send the criminals back to their families!

Well of course it wasn't a suprise the Democrats surrendered, duh! Evil always retreats when strongly confronted, right?

And if enough of us reject this "any position other than totally open borders == hates brown people" notion Congress will back down too. But don't hold your breath for most government educated, mass media consuming types to get angry enough.

Personally I could care less about a 'comprehensive' solution because it's just code for amnesty. You want to solve the problem, use the only remaining organ of government that still mostly functions. Tax it. 25% payroll tax on illegals and you can't give em less than minumum wage. But all an employer has to do is write ILLEGAL in the space for SSN and remit the normal FICA and withholding plus the special 25% tax. Now with it so easy to be legal, raise the penalty for hiring an illegal off the books to mandatory jail time plus asset forfeiture.

Look at what that would do. It instantly puts paid to the lie that they are doing 'work Americans won't do.' Or it wouldn't, in which case more power to em, if they are really working jobs Americans won't do at 25% above minimum wage. And they WOULD be getting minimum because by forcing it out into the open employers would NOT want to stiff the IRS, it is the one agency they all fear.

So with most jobs dried up tha majority would return home on their own, no need to find a way to motivate the INS to do their jobs.

Pete-

"3) the preponderance of people were skilled to semi-skilled, and valued education"

This just isn't true. I'm sorry, but it isn’t. The vast majority of turn of the century immigrants started out as factory workers or in other low skilled jobs.

"1) European immigrants came to become Americans.
2) European immigrants worked to integrate, and learn the language and customs."

I agree - eventually. The problem I have in comparing this, is that the lack of integration and the lack of people assimilating here has as much to with multiculturalism right now as anything else. While nutso groups like La Raza advocate a reconquista and separating themselves from Americans, I don't believe the average immigrant comes from Guatemala to show the Gringo who's boss. However, once they get here, in schools and in the culture they'll see a constant bashing of Western civilization and American history and, instead of a pressure to assimilate, that will push them in the opposite direction.

**That's** what's different from 100 years ago. If you went to any immigrant ghetto back then you'd find a ton of people speaking another language and acting differently from everybody else, but there would be a hell of a lot more of a pressure to conform than today.

"4) European immigrants did not start their immigration by breaking the law."

It goes back to what I'm saying. They didn't break the law. But if they came under current rules, their coming here would have been illegal. Likewise-walking across the border 80 years would have been fine.

----

The other problem is that there were far fewer government programs, back then you either could get a job on your own or just went back. And that's going to be another problem if we just declare amnesty amd why I do not support this thing.

Whenever I see fat Teddy Kennedy supporting ANYTHING the red flag of caution goes up in my head! ANYTHING fat Teddy Kennedy supports is almost guaranteed to be something I don't support. I will check the details later - but experience tells me... Unfortunately, our President doesn't get this...sigh...

Personally, I think assimilation is the biggest problem.
The number of people we would now accept in far outstrips the annual legal immigration in the mid 19th to end of 19th century hey day. And, they are ALL from the same country/culture.

I originally came form Chicago and 40 years ago there were still heavily Polish and Irish neighborhoods.
The difference was that they all considered themselves Americans first and not Polish or Irish. I don't think that is true of the vast majority of illegal Mexicans.

KeithP

This past weekend I spent two nights in a motel in Wisconsin. All of the staff, including housekeeping, spoke English. Everyone seemed to be very pleasant and took pride in what they were doing. Some places actually have people who are not Hispanic take jobs because they want income. The current argument that "they take jobs that Americans won't take" is a bunch of garbage. Most, those who visit IMAO, understand this. If a person wants a job they can will find one. It might not be at $20.00 an hour but if you are legal it will be at least minimum wage, not the slave wages of an indentured servant.

Phobos said:

If a person wants a job they can will find one. It might not be at $20.00 an hour but if you are legal it will be at least minimum wage, not the slave wages of an indentured servant.

Thats the dirty unspoken secret in all of this discussion of illegals. The impact of the minimum wage; Any job that isn't worth minimum wage CAN'T go to an American. Thus it must go to an illegal. Think about the implications of that in light of the impending increase in the minimum wage.

All this talk about 'jobs Americans won't do.' is bull, it is about jobs Americans CAN'T do.

It is the governments responsibility to protect it's citizen. Who is protecting us from the criminals coming across the border, because every person, no matter what age, country of origin, sex or political persuasion who sneaks across the border is a criminal.

What makes the genuis' in Washington think these people are going to obey the other laws that govern this country. After all they ignored the ones concerning coming here, why won't they just ignore the other laws they don't like or inconvenience them.

This is why people are against the "Amnesty Bill". Not because we hate "brown people". That and the arrogance of the Pro- Illegal people. If these people put half as much energy improving their own country as they do here they wouldn't have had to leave.