I really like the fat tony reference

"I see the feminine studies department could do with some burqas."

Someone should seriously petition to have the U.N. removed from U.S. soil.

"You guys are great; I'll kill you last."

LOL

Perhaps IMAO could start such a petition, Algo2, and promote links to it here from all over the internet.

LOL!! I think I found a reference for Moonbunny's upcoming civics homework.

Muslims Against Sharia condemn, in the strongest possible terms, the decision of Columbia University to provide a speaking venue for Mahmoud Ahmadinejad. Apparently letting Akbar Rafsanjani speak at the National Cathedral was not the height of American Dhimmitude, because providing a venue for the world's foremost anti-Semite, whose proclaimed goal is the destruction of the USA and Israel, definitely takes the cake. What is surprising is that we don't hear any complaints from Columbia alumni who should be ashamed of their silence.

More on the subject: Why Does Columbia host Ahmadinejad?

Why is this man breathing?

'Cause I live in Californicator.

RJS, ya beat me to to it. And that pretty much sums up what we're all thinking about progressive chix...

Bunch o' bra shunnun', Birkenstock & patchouli wearin' penis hatin' hairy-ass Broadzillas...

"We demand that you stop treating us a sex objects & respect us for our minds!"

Heh- Wrong on both counts there, "ladies".

Boy, did I digress or what?!? Sorry, after working on the UNM campus for several years, it's hard to repress memories of crunchy hippy chicks acting the fool every time you see them.

Also from Ahmadinejad's keynotes: "Try hard to come off as the Anthony Robbins of Islam. Remember: Just as a fool & his money are soon parted, so can it be with an infidel & his head, if you sell it to them right."

Friggin' brilliant. They're all my favorite, but my most favorite fav is the first one. Good gawd, that's funny!

You are an ignorant person.
Your words cannot belittle a man so great as to stand up against the terrorism of US of A.

I guess you guys want to hear it from me. I 'm a student living in Iran. I didn't vote for Ahmadinejad and never would because I think he's not the kind of person that makes the country a better place after all. The sad thing is US propaganda and policies of Bush administration are so arrogant that they make even Ahmadinejad look good.
I don't want to take sides, but just listen to what he said in Columbia and think what if these are his real point of views because I think they are. The one about gay community was plain stupid though!!!
Cheers

Exactly what propaganda are you speaking of, Anita? Do you somehow think that the US is doing voice-overs & mistranslating Mahmoud Ahmadinejad?

Does it occur to you that, since we do not have a state-run media like certain Islamic countries, that what is said gets reported on news outlets WORLDWIDE & we can access any of them at any time?
If you think we rely on just one or two sources, then you know about as much about us as you do Ahmadinejad's agenda.

What Ahmadinejad thinks, he says.
What he says, we hear.
And when we hear it, we decide for ourselves.

It's pretty cut & dried like that. We don't need any propaganda on the man because he paints his own picture of himself.

I'm so glad you didn't vote for him. I imagine a decided majority of Iranians did not vote for him.

Thanks for your replies. I'm glad you don't rely on only one news source. The same thing is true here on the other side of the globe and thanks to internet people have access to almost all resources you guys have in US. I guess it would be more constructive if we could discuss some of the issues that are center of controversies when it comes to him.

- On the nuclear issue, Iran and IAEA have a clear cut working plan to resolve the remaining issues in 3 months from now and so far there hasn't been single evidence that they are trying to go for nuclear weapons. The way I see it, Bush administration is doing whatever it can to undermine this agreement and propose new sanctions and even military strike which will so directly affect lives of people like me.
To me it seems nuclear issue is just a justification for more military control over the Middle East. If resolved they should find something else. Just my opinion, open for criticism.

- About the holocaust, what I heard from him in Columbia was that he is not saying it didn't happen. He's challenging the idea that nobody is allowed to deny it. Do you think it is reasonable to say there shouldn't be more research or debate into this?
You may find it interesting that his views on how to resolve the Israel-Arabs conflict is so popular in Middle East countries, not as much in Iran. They rather stay away from the conflict.

-On the issue of helping insurgents in Iraq, I personally don't believe claims from US government. I mean we heard them before on weapons of mass destruction in Iraq. Yes Iran and Iraq have a large border which is impossible to seal and weapons may go through but is Iranian government actively involved, let's say so far there has been no CLEAR EVIDENCE. I think Iranian government is not stupid enough to do this because if proved, many countries would back US up in attacking Iran.
What I mean by US propaganda is that they're trying to blame the disaster going on in Iraq on Ahmadinejad. Let's face it, Iraq is such a mess after US attack that you can't make it much worse, weather Ahmadinejad tries or not. You feel the devastation when you hear 3-4 thousand US soldiers are killed in Iraq. Think of devastation of hundreds of thousands of Iraqis who are affected and maybe you have a better idea about the tragedy that's really going on.

-People often say Ahadinejad supports terrorist groups. It's become like a mantra. Who is he supporting? The only one I know is Hamas in Palestine and he claims it's just a moral support no financial or anything, it's up to you to believe it or not. As far as I know Hamas was democratically elected in Palestine. Right after the elections US put sanctions on them and everything. People where so pissed off in the region. You support the election and when it doesn't go the way you want then you block the government. I mean how one expects people in the region to ever trust similar policies leaded by US. That just provides the ground for more popularity of Ahmadinejad.

Last thing, I never supported him before. I guess when he starts to makes more sense than other politicians; we're in a really bad shape.

Anita

Your English is "sehr gut," Anitadinijad.

I guess a president who speaks your own language would have to make more sense to you than other politicians, maybe you're just not understanding english very well

Come on people. We live in different parts of the world. Whether we like it or not, chances are you are biased on some issues and I'm biased on some others. If you think I'm way off on some of the issues I mentioned, please tell me what you think. That's why I posted my message.

and Violet, I only read English news to hear what people in rest of the world hear. I think BBC is least biased, CNN is moderately biased, Fox is in one extreme and Iranian prestv.ir is the other extreme. Hopefully going through them all gives a more realistic view. What news agencies do you guys trust?

Anita

I don't trust any of the world's news sources because I think they all have their own political agenda. Much of the world has state sponsored news channels and while we don't actually, we might as well. CNN on the other hand doesn't have much of an agenda aside from reporting on sensational trash news and celebrity sightings; totally useless.

I did however watch taped versions of the "debate" today at Columbia and trust that the footage of both speeches was not doctored. I think Mahmoud is a lunatic. I think Bush is a lunatic. But Mahmoud is something otherworldly; I think it is sad that an entire nation lives under his rule and I don't pray for miracles but I certainly hope for one for Iran.

Machiavelli warned about the separation between church and state. mahmoud, take heed.

Anita called his remarks on gays stupid - heh!

I agree with Anita that Bush is a lunatic! Why did we give "shorty" a visa to come into this country in the first place and why haven't we kicked him out by now? I for one, don't care what this twerp has to say! He is a punk that needs to get his ass kicked! If the Iranian people want to live under guys like this...they get what they deserve! If they wish freedom...quit whining about it and take it!

I guess we found a common ground here. Everybody seem to agree that current presidents of Iran and US are lunatics! I don’t want to talk about Bush as you are probably fed up with that already. About Ahmadinejad, let me give you my honest opinion and I think I speak for majority of Iranian youth.

- Do I want Ahmadinejad out? Yes, not just because of his “controversial” political views but because of his “nonsense” economic policies that’s wasting countrie’s resources.

- Do I want a sudden change like a revolution? That’s a big NO! Not that I don’t like change but because of the diverse architecture of Iranian society, I think a revolution tends to make things even worse.

- Do I want foreign military to remove the government by force like what happened in Iraq even in a smaller scale by air strike or something? God No! Because in that case many people who don’t support Ahmadinejad and his government will back him up. It won’t be much different from what happened in Iraq just in a much larger scale. A far bigger step back than Ahmadinejad itself.

So what’s the solution? It’s not an intriguing option but in my opinion THE ONLY viable solution is slow change of the government from within. Something like this started with president Khatami in 1997 and lasted till 2005 and we all saw the step by step changes. Everyone wanted more change but I guess things like this take time. And then Ahmadinejad came in; for sure that’s a step back but he’ll be gone as his popularity falls and reformists come back again. I’m personally looking at 20-40 years from now till a descent government rules the country but as bitter as it is, that’s better than never!

However, what really worry me are not the presidents. Let’s say both presidents are miraculously replaced by rational ideal candidates. What still remains is differences that we can see in my comments and AlanABQ’s which I do respect and I think comes from a rational person. If presidents really represent people, they should still deal with these friction points.

On the nuclear issue, I totally hear what you’re saying. The reason most Iranian’s support the nuclear program is not that they trust the government or even like it, but even thinking about relying on US or even Russia for nuclear fuel sounds like a joke. Recent history has shown several times that they easily use such tools to press the government. So the options are “no nuclear plants” or having the “complete cycle” inside the country. About the IAEA talks, yes they haven’t concluded it is totally peaceful but they haven’t found ANY evidence so far and chief of IAEA said they can conclude if the program is peaceful in 3 months. He insists the only way to make sure Iran doesn’t go beyond peaceful use of nuclear energy is to have the cameras and inspectors in place which is covered in the agreement. As far as I know no country could produce nuclear weapons under IAEA inspection, they have to kick them out first. So if people are really worried about this government developing a bomb, just boost the IAEA path. Air strike on their facilities only pushes them toward making such weapons. Let me know what you think about this.

As for women’s rights; could it be better, of course. There’s lots of room for improvement. But is it really bothering people? it depends how you look at it. I’m a medical student in Tehran and I almost do anything I want. Female to male ratio has been more than one in Iranian universities for several years now. Political discussions in public are so common. You can just stay on the sidewalk for 10 minutes and hear people criticizing everybody in government. The taboo is the leader that you’re not supposed to talk about!! The only restriction you feel as a woman is the dress code which is set by government and majority of women don’t like it. Still in periods people push it to the limit and they show so much skin! that it even bothers me! Then government increases the pressure and that’s a cat and mouse game. We have our personal life and if you don’t do crazy things like driving while you’re drunk, you’ll be fine. If you’re a political activist you’ll have a hard time and may even get prosecuted but that’s the price you pay for slow changes. I wouldn’t go for it if I had better options. Having all these things said there’s a lot of room for improvement but at the moment I think things are bearable while we’re going through the reforms. I hope other countries spend their time and resources to support the reformists rather than arguing with Ahmadinejad which won’t be a big player in the long term.

I guess we better talk about these issues one by one, although I believe the issue of holocaust is not something that really lasts after Ahmadinejad. I think it’s just a controversy he used to get the attention he needed early in his presidency. It’s one of those things you never hear people talk about in Iran.

Anita

[Ideally, Iran can change itself from the inside, and I'm quite hopeful for that because I don't think the citizens there are as uninformed as the government would want them to be. It really sounds like the seeds are there for it to become a great country. But if Iran's government becomes a danger to more than just its own people... -Ed.]

I just saw your comment ussjimmycarter. I understand you don’t like Ahmadinejad and don’t want him there, but let’s face it, having him give a talk in Columbia made us all exchange our opinions here and probably hundreds of discussions like this are going on. From this point of view, I’m glad they let him talk.

Anita

I don't know, Anita.

I just find it odd that Iran is so incredibly dead-set on nuclear fuel... for energy, right?... in a region of the world that is literally oozing with oil. Since you were answering your own questions, ask yourself: Does that make sense to you?

From what I hear Iran’s oil reserve will be gone in 60 years so I personally think if not late it’s definitely not early to start working on nuclear plants. Oil seems to be just too valuable to burn. Actually building of the first nuclear plant in Iran started before 1979 revolution and then halted because of the war. It's not something that just recently occured to this particular government. I think Iran needs to become independent of oil and oil income as soon as possible or the future of the country's economy will be just dark.

Anita

Quick answer to the comment on my #24 message.

Of course, if Iranian government becomes too dangerous for other nations then nobody can argue their right to defend themselves. Just let's be careful about the fact that governments like Bush administration are getting really good at spreading false fear to bring everyone on board. After 1979 revolution Iran never attacked any other country. In the terrorist attacks in US and UK not even one Iranian was involved.

Bottom line, I agree with your logic but to be honest I don’t think Ahmadinejad and his government will ever be a threat to international peace (just my impression from inside Iran). However, many people in the region see Bush administration a full blown threat already in place.

Anita

[I think people who believe President Bush just wants to start wars for the heck of it are being silly. -Ed.]

From what I hear Iran’s oil reserve will be gone in 60 years

Based on what? They did studies in the 70's that said all our oil was going to be gone in twenty years. Here we are in 2007 and some of our oil sources are still untapped. No, sorry honey, but I don't buy your country needing nuclear power in any fashion until you get that lunatic dictator assasinated and get a democractic republic based on capitalism in place.

One other thing I think you failed to point out about voting for this nutcase is that women in your country were chased away and threatened when they tried to vote.

Once your country comes out of the stone-age, maybe our leaders(not ahmiadinejad, mind you) can have some intelligent discourse, but in the meantime, don't let your burka get too many wrinkles, 'kay!

If you were right then things in Iraq would be better now after US attack. Let me tell you, IT IS NOT!

On the other hand if you want to ruin the region instead of helping the reformists build it, it’s only a matter of time till the chaos comes right beck at you. Unfortunately earth is not as big as it used to be.

Anita

Shimauma,

It seems you don’t know much about Iran. I don’t think it’s reasonable for anybody to rely on the “possibility” of more oil resources to be found in future!!!

And what did you mean about the voting. I am a woman and I vote freely like anyone else. You’re probably thinking about another country. If you want to see what Iran looks like, do a quick search. Let me make it easier for you:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qkkt7_dGW-s

It might give you a better idea of WHAT IRAN I’m defending. It might be a little different from what you see in news.

Anita

Anita, interesting, isn't it, how an historically friendly relationship between two cultures was trashed by the coming of Islamic rule in 1979? Your country 'went off the deep end' and is still there. We're pulling for you to come back, but if you don't, and if your Mullahs have their way with their Mahdi, we just may have to cook your country's military infrastructure in the name of world peace.

You're right about the historical friendship pinky, but you know there's a saying that it takes more than one fool to ruin a friendship. I never defend what Iranian government does, I know myself as a reformist who wants change, but if you think cooking the military infrastructure is an alternative solution to slow reforms, I would say think again.

Anita

Quick answer to the comment on my #28 message.

I don't think people believe Bush starts wars just for the heck of it. I think what they're saying is that he tends to easily come to the conclusion that war is a great solution, while it could be the last option to consider.

Anita

Perhaps you're in the 'dark' about what your military is doing, Anita. Personally, I think our government is waiting for your reforms, otherwise we would have taken action based on what has already transpired in Iraq and Afghanistan. Your country's indulgences with Russa and China for nuclear materials, missiles, fighter jets and other weapons certainly has our attention. AND they're controlled by your "Mullahs." I leave it to you to map out the possible outcomes of their misuse.

"Patience is a virtue disguised as a discomfort" or perhaps the other way around. Let's hope that this "patience" doesn't lead to grief.

PS: I used to have numerous Iranian friends at college back in the 70's. When Khomeini and his clerics took over, most of them experienced a complete personality change.

War is not a great solution. Agreed.

And it's not an easy conclusion to come to. In fact, he could not have done it without Congressional consent. You need to remember that diplomacy only works when both sides are cooperating. In Iraq, Saddam had 12 years to cooperate, but refused at every turn. We tried the whole "give peace a chance", which was a nice way of saying "Let's wait until the cancer spreads before we start treatment". You think that if Saddam just had a little more time, he would've come clean & decided to stop his bullshit? I don't think so.

I've said it before when it comes to dealing with unpredictable, duplicitous leaders or regimes: If you're waiting until you have a smoking gun, then it's too late- someone's already been shot.

I do think that Iran should have a viable form of energy for the country, but the Islamic Revolution did nothing to make anyone feel like now is a good time for a government who despises Israel & the West to have access to enriched uranium.

It's analogous to someone saying, "Sure, I really would love nothing more than to shoot you in the face someday, but right now I only want this rifle to hunt food with. Honest. By the way, can I borrow some ammunition & a scope from you?"

You do have a point pinky and I guess we’re trying to solve the exact same problems.

- We want to make sure this government doesn’t go over peaceful limits of its nuclear program which seems to be possible by having IAEA inspection. Any air strike would mean the inspectors are kicked out of Iran and then probably Iranian government sees no reason not to go for the bomb when they’ve already paid the price. Conventional weapons they produce or buy from China and Russia should not be any threat to USA and Europe with their missile defense system and everything.

- We all want to boost the reformists and that doesn’t happen by economic sanctions! It’s repeated many times in Iran and to me looks like a déjà vu. Iranians support reforms when they shouldn’t work three shifts to have their basic needs covered, otherwise I guess majority of people just mind their own business coping with difficulties of everyday life. The way I see it, economic sanctions have made life much more difficult for regular citizens and has blocked reforms more than blocking the government. Again that’s only my opinion from inside Iran.

I hope you see my point here. I’m not defending Iranian government. I’m defending the plan that might work best for everyone.

Anita

Anita, you demonstrate why - historically - Americans and Iranians have been such good friends. This goes back generations. Do you realize what would happen if you unelected those Mullahs? Why there'd be an explosion of trade, industry, tourism, culture...everything. Think about that!

That’s right pinky, even thinking about the missed opportunities strikes me. Many people are spending their lives to make a change here but any quick change could be detrimental. Slow reforms do take time and that probably means real peace skips my generation too. It’s bitter and unfortunate but yet late better than never..

The good news is we heard each other in peace here and that may promise a fresh start.

Anita

Please, I do not believe the Iranian President made all those rediculous comments or exerpts you posted. While I do not agree with everything he may or may not say - there are always two or more sides to every story. I do agree with his idea that Americans need to 'clean house' and start "looking at itself in the mirrow" before it tries to influence human behavior in the world. Americans lets face it - you are not the Romans and never will be. Accountability, Integrity respect, and opportunity for ALL makes a society and culture truly great in God's eyes. I still see too much ignorance and predjudice to our fellow citizens. Hint: I'm not Black, Jewish or Muslim - how about a Roman Catholic of Sicilian heritage! No I'm not in the Mafia...etc... Get my thrift. God Bless Everybody. Frankie G

Please, I do not believe the Iranian President made all those rediculous comments or exerpts you posted. While I do not agree with everything he may or may not say - there are always two or more sides to every story. I do agree with his idea that Americans need to 'clean house' and start "looking at itself in the mirrow" before it tries to influence human behavior in the world. Americans lets face it - you are not the Romans and never will be. Accountability, Integrity respect, and opportunity for ALL makes a society and culture truly great in God's eyes. I still see too much ignorance and predjudice to our fellow citizens. Hint: I'm not Black, Jewish or Muslim - how about a Roman Catholic of Sicilian heritage! No I'm not in the Mafia...etc... Get my thrift. God Bless Everybody. Frankie G

Please, I do not believe the Iranian President made all those rediculous comments or exerpts you posted. While I do not agree with everything he may or may not say - there are always two or more sides to every story. I do agree with his idea that Americans need to 'clean house' and start "looking at itself in the mirrow" before it tries to influence human behavior in the world. Americans lets face it - you are not the Romans and never will be. Accountability, Integrity respect, and opportunity for ALL makes a society and culture truly great in God's eyes. I still see too much ignorance and predjudice to our fellow citizens. Hint: I'm not Black, Jewish or Muslim - how about a Roman Catholic of Sicilian heritage! No I'm not in the Mafia...etc... Get my thrift. God Bless Everybody. Frankie G