What is interesting, is the level of attention that the story attracted. Why? Because it’s an isolated incident that hadn’t happened before and hasn’t reoccurred since! Please believe me, or go back and check out the links I posted further up the thread, we just don’t have anywhere near the amount of violent crime that exists in the US.

At the outset of the video, the protest being filmed was to do with the proposed fox hunting ban that was finally introduced in 2004. Fox hunting was a traditional sport for the upper classes, where a fox would be hunted by a group of horsemen and a pack of hounds. They would seek out a fox and chase it across the countryside, trashing hedgerows and private land in their wake, until they caught the fox. The huntsman then threw it to the hounds, whilst still alive, who would rip it limb from limb. Young huntsman would then have the blood smeared across their faces as part of an initiation process. The pro-hunt protesters were in a significant minority and the general view of the nation was that it should have been banned years ago. Other forms of hunting are still perfectly legal in the UK.

Our gun laws were debated as a result of the Hungerford massacre in 1986 and finally changed following the Dunblane school massacre in Scotland in 1996. Since the change in the laws, we have not witnessed any further such instances.

This may be of interest:

America and Gun Violence

American children are more at risk from firearms than the children of any other industrialized nation. In one year, firearms killed no children in Japan, 19 in Great Britain, 57 in Germany, 109 in France, 153 in Canada, and 5,285 in the United States.

* The rate of firearm deaths among kids under age 15 is almost 12 times higher in the United States than in 25 other industrialized countries combined.

* American kids are 16 times more likely to be murdered with a gun, 11 times more likely to commit suicide with a gun, and nine times more likely to die from a firearm accident than children in 25 other industrialized countries combined. Source: http://www.neahin.org/programs/schoolsafety/gunsafety/statistics.htm

No further comment is required. The figures speak for themselves.

Check this one out.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yTq2NEUlhDE

Rumpelstiltskin is OK with me!

If you want a daily log of the erosion of freedoms in the U.K., read pcwatch.blogspot.com. The article selection is somewhat myopic, but the trend is born out by reports I receive from relatives.

The English are, however, still the best at everything – including condescension.

I also didn’t mean to offend in my ponderings about the differences between Europe and the US. Whether someone is willing to accept what is and live with it or to move on to something new is a personal, individual preference. One is not better than the other, simply different.

It does though explain the differences in our thought processes about problem solving, social mores, liberty, et al. We in the US find the “nanny state” mentality of much of Europe to be restrictive and intrusive. In turn the Europeans seem to find some of our peoples “less government” ideas uncaring and negligent.

I was pondering from an intellectual standpoint more than a judgmental standpoint.

Sorry if I offended, I really didn’t mean to.

I can assure you I have many American friends and colleagues and certainly do not see them as backward in any way, shape or form. Quite the contrary in many cases. Neither do I believe that we are more enlightened. Our historical differences have shaped our beliefs and cultures and, as a result, we see certain things from different perspectives. That is only natural and inevitable. We only have to look at the way Islamic history has skewed perspectives in Arab states to see how that works! Fortunately, Britain and America both believe in the democratic process, so our cultures do meet at that point and, consequently, we tend to find some common ground. That and our language, of course.

That said, in the same way as you get angry about the way Europeans attempt to belittle your beliefs and cultures, I get frustrated when I see so many anti-brit postings on American sites, and read about what an awful, hedonistic and morally bankrupt place Britain has become. That is simply untrue. I often wonder, if that is the genuine belief in the US, why is Britain still your most visited overseas location?

When all is said and done, there is good and bad on both sides of the Atlantic, as there is in all societies. If we accept that, we can stop bitching about who’s better than who and move forward together as allies of democracy and common sense.

I didn’t see your last post Rumpel……the one where you slammed both 5 of 7 and the nation I hold near and dear.

Were you just joking around then, too? You do that a lot – say obnoxious things and then follow up with, “Aw just foolin!”

Or maybe you’re just showing yourself to be a smug (fill in blank)?

Make up your mind, would ya.

Thanks for the apology. It gets old hearing from Europeans how enlightenened they think they are and how backwards they think we are.

Thank you/your country for standing shoulder to shoulder with us.

We cringe at the thought of your nation being lost to extremists and those who do not cherish God, freedom. I personally hope America doesn’t follow suit. There’s a reason people risk life and limb to come here at all cost. We have always been the shining city on the hill.

I hope and pray the “inconsistencies” you find in the Bible don’t keep you from finding the truth about God.

PS – Oh and yeah, we like guns here. A lot.

Only joking, of course. However, I must admit, having looked at the US crime stats, I’m beginning to understand why you have the gun laws you do. It must be a pretty frightening place to live nowadays. Thank God we don’t have to worry about that here!

“Can you elaborate with some specifics, please?

2 – .22 cal revolvers
1 – .32 acp pistol
1 – .32 S&W long revolver
1 – .357 Magnum revolver
1 – .45 cal pistol
1 – .22 cal bolt-action rifle
1 – .22 cal pump-action rifle
1 – .357 Magnum lever-action carbine
1 – 20 ga breach-loaded shotgun
1 – 12 ga breach-loaded shotgun
1 – 12 ga pump shotgun
right to carry
right to self-defense
right to defend my home or business without being treated as a bigger criminal than the hood who attacks me.
(check back in 2 years. Current status liable to change).

I give you Kudos for doing your homework. All I did was look in my gun cabinet.

Thank you for the feedback. Firstly, I understand freedom to be defined in terms of; freedom of speech, freedom of the press, freedom of assembly, freedom of political viewpoint, freedom of movement, freedom to elect a government etc. In other words, true democracy. In that respect, I believe the UK to be much on a par with the USA.

The statements you have made, I believe, have more to do with quality of life and, whereas freedom and quality of life do have a bearing on each other, they are not inextricably linked.

However, I’ll still address each of the claims you have made as, because they are unsubstantiated, are open to interpretation and, therefore, in need of clarification.

“Video camera’s [sic] in every corner”

CCTV is prominent in some areas of the UK, I’ll concede to that. They’re mainly located in high risk crime areas. They are certainly not on every street corner and vast areas of the UK do not have any cameras at all. The latest statistics show that there is one camera for each 14 inhabitants. The linked article below suggests that there are now 30m cameras in the USA…

http://www.popularmechanics.com/technology/military_law/4236865.html

With a population of approx 300m, that equates to one for every 10 inhabitants.

“Home ownership at record lows”

Home ownership is actually at a decade low, not an all time low. This has been brought about by the international economic downturn that, incidentally, started in the US as a direct result of sub-prime lending and the subsequent offsetting of loans. Home ownership in the UK runs parallel with the US and is currently equal at 69%.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homeownership_in_the_United_States#International_Comparison

“Gangs of armed youths (sticks and rocks) wandering the cities so no one feels safe any more”

I have never witnessed gangs of youths brandishing sticks and rocks and I spend a lot of time in different cities, both by day and night. There are some areas in some cities that have a problem with gang culture, as there is in the US. However, it is perfectly safe to walk the streets in the overwhelming majority of the UK. You might like to check out the violent crime statistics for the US versus those of the UK. As a start, you will see from the link below that your murder / homicide rate is, per capita, four times that of the UK.

http://www.nationmaster.com/red/graph/cri_mur_percap-crime-murders-per-capita

“Generations of children lost to the scourge of abortion for the convenience of people who can’t take responsibility for keeping their legs closed and their pants zipped.”

I am not proud of the abortion statistics in the UK and am extremely concerned that abortion is being seen as a form of contraception by a frighteningly high number of young women. My work keeps me close to the UK abortion debate and I am in agreement that radical change is required to drastically reduce our figures. However, the following statistics show how much of a problem this is in the US where 24% of pregnancies end in abortion. I must admit that this figure staggered me as I thought it would be the one area where the UK would definitely return significantly damning figures. Apparently not.

US statistics:

http://womensissues.about.com/od/reproductiverights/tp/Ten-Abortion-Facts.htm

UK statistics:

http://www.dh.gov.uk/en/publicationsandstatistics/publications/publicationsstatistics/dh_4116461

I would write more on the ‘Silver Ring Thing’ abstention initiative in the US and its disappointing statistics, as this is something I have had to consider in the course of my work. However, the subject is huge and a separate debate in itself.

“The elderly and infirm unable to get competent medical care when they need it”

The UK, as you are probably aware, has a National Health Service that provides free medical care for all its citizens. Nowadays, many UK citizens choose to take out private health care insurance as the level of care is, understandably, higher than the free service. Health care plans provided by employers are becoming increasingly common. Nonetheless, we do still provide a comprehensive free medical service for anyone that wishes to access it. I believe we can be proud of that. It has found itself under a great deal of strain over the years as it requires huge cash injections from the government. You only have to do a brief Google search to find articles that are critical of US health policy for the poor. One, for example, can be read at:

http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/2007-06-18-texas-health-care_N.htm#uslPageReturn

“Members of the military spit on and refused service”

These, I can assure you are isolated instances, carried out by people I am ashamed to share my nationality with. The few occurrences are then sensationalised by the gutter press. The vast majority of UK citizens are extremely proud of our armed services and support them all the way, even if they are not so supportive of the political decisions that take them into ‘some’ controversial wars. With regard to the US, you also have your fundamentalists that take repulsive action against your war heroes.

http://current.com/items/89006804/westboro_church_thanks_god_for_deaths.htm

These American, ‘supposed’ Christians picket your soldiers funerals with placards such as ‘Thank God for Dead Soldiers’ – Nothing on this grotesque scale has ever been staged against our soldiers in Britain. However, I would not dream of taking this as representative of the general US viewpoint, in the same way that I would not expect Americans to view our isolated ‘minor’ incidents as representative of the British viewpoint.

“Christian institutions attacked and closed for being intolerant by members of other minority sects.”

Again, isolated instances jumped on by the tabloids and sensationalised out of all proportion. All UK towns, cities and villages still have Christian churches in high numbers that carry on their business unchallenged at all times.

It saddens me that many Americans hold viewpoints that are so scathing of Britain and British culture, and choose to believe only the negatives they hear about it. Britain has always been a staunch ally of America and, at this point in time, stands shoulder to shoulder with you in two wars. Yes there are some social problems in Britain but, as the above hopefully illustrates, they are no more than those in the USA.

Incidentally, thank you for giving me something to occupy my time on a particularly cold and typically wet British Sunday afternoon!

I guess you’re pretty free to wallow in the muck and mire of hedonistic and sensual secularism. That I guess is what Europe has settled for.

No offense meant…I only know about what I read in the rags.

5 of 7 – In what way do you believe our freedom in the UK has been eroded? Having lived on both sides of the pond, I see very little difference here from the US. Can you elaborate with some specifics, please?

“Here I am! I stand at the door and knock!”
- Rev 3:20

(Probability of God’s existence) * (cost of living His way) * (results of living His way)

weighed against

(1 – Probability of God’s existence) * (cost of not living His way) * (results of not living His way)

Since the results of not living his way are uniformly bad, both in temporal and especially eternal terms, the probability of God’s existence would have to be very nearly zero for atheism to be a viable alternative.”

Both of those things result in the same outcome. You go to hell no matter how you live if you’re talking about probabilities and God’s existence. At least if we’re talking about the Xian God. You have to believe in God to stay out of hell. Unless you’re assigning a 100% or maybe 99% probability to God existing, I don’t think that counts as belief.

The world would be a VERY different place without Christians.

You “free-thinking” Brits crack me up.

Your last paragraph is arrogant.

I still agree with Kent.

That is why our ancestors originally left. They were not willing to settle or to allow someone else to choose for them. They weren’t willing to have less than someone else just because they were born into a certain family, socio-economic group or town. They believed that everyone was responsible for themselves and what they achieved. That is why they came here, that is why they didn’t stay there………..they refused to allow someone else to limit their destiny.

That is also why Americans achieved while Europe floundered, why the new technologies, ideas and discoveries in science, medicine et al. have come from the US. Others may take those ideas and improve on them but the generation of new ideas takes freedom of action and thought and they simply don’t know how to do that there. Just ask the Russians. They haven’t had a new thought in two millennia.

Anyway, as IMAO’s token staff atheist, I have to say that I’m against this because it’s rude to open a conversation with a complete stranger by making a controversial statement, and that’s essentially what this ad does.

If atheists want to persuade people that being an atheist is a good thing, then atheists should start by not being assholes.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/shared/bsp/hi/pdfs/17_07_07_crime.pdf

Latest published figures for 2006/2007 are 2.5% of households, or 2500 per 100,000 households – (households, not population). This has fallen steadily year-on-year from a high of 6.4% in 1995. It should probably be noted that the vast majority of British homes do not have any form of intruder alarm system installed.

Source: Home Office Statistical Bulletin (PDF Document)