OMG! there is a genetic mutation that causes me to grow hair all over my body I need a special law

OMG! By the Ruinous Powers taint I have a third eye and a tentacle for an arm now and the Black Templars are after me!

July 16th, 2009 at 8:23 pm
CarolynP – the “official” US incidence of transsexuality is 1 in 30,000 for women, 1 in 100,000 for men. That’s based on some measurements in Sweden in the 1960’s.
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This is kinda why liberal arts majors ie the pyschobabble fields included routinely produce junk science.

How in the lowest pit of the most deranged pit in Hades

CAN YOU HAVE A STUDY FOR THE USA WHEN IT WAS DONE ON MEASUREMENTS IN SWEDEN?!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Newsflash go review your scientific method and the errror of causality ie as John Lott I do believe put it ” . . . lots of people die in hospitals therefore hospitals casue death”

Just reading those first two statements wow *Drinks a shot but damn can’t it’s still during the day during a week day*

And if you are born with a vagina, then you develop a penis later in life, it is quite obvious that you are a moon person. Therefore; you should return to the moon. Then we now have proof that moon people do exist, and therefore we must nuke the moon.

I was referring to natural plumbing…what you were born with. If you were born with a penis, use the men’s room. If you were born with a vagina, use the women’s room.

And if you were born with 5ARD or 17BHDD, so had a vagina at birth, but a penis later? Or didn’t you read that post? Probably not, you just ignored it. I don’t think you’re stupid enough not to be able to understand it.

Lots of people here are acting like Lefties: making absolute statements without giving evidence, ignoring facts, ignoring science, just because they “feel” they know what should be true. Proud of their ignorance.

It’s one thing to be sceptical about a “scientific consensus” and debate that using facts and figures. The whole politicised BS about Global Warming – er – sorry – “Climate Change” this week – shows that politics can pollute scientific inquiry. But the people who are debunking the rubbish are doing so not on the basis that it’s Liberal Crap, but on the basis that the facts don’t support those conclusions. You can’t just ignore reality by labelling criticism as “white neo-colonialist oppression”, nor “marxist liberal claptrap”. Some here would be right at home at DU. Young Earth Creationists are you? Or Geocentricists, or even Platygeans?

We have some people insisting that it’s obvious which bathroom you use – the one that matched your genitalia at birth, that’s just it, end of story. They don’t say why. We have others who say that it only matters what genitalia you have now, and that’s just it, end of story. They don’t say why. At least get your story straight people!

I personally will never patronize a store that I have to equip myself with pepper spray just to use the loo. All this will do is encourage stores to take out restrooms. Thanks a lot goys and birls or whatever you’re calling yourselves now.

Once again, if I choose to drink my ass off, that is my choice. It is destructive in ways, but I chose it knowing this. To bring the mentality into account, like you did, I can blame it on alcoholism runs in my family…because it’s a disease right? Nothing I can do about it according to your POV. So, since I am no longer responsible for my behavior that has ramifications, do we now have to change the laws pertaining to public intoxication and DUI to pander to my own ‘affliction’?

“Oh, but you chose to get drunk!” No I didn’t. Alcoholism runs in my family. Mentally I am an alcoholic, so now I want to amend laws so that I am not ‘oppressed’ by a society that is bigoted against people with my ‘disease’.

If you disagree with me, you are an alcoholist.

It’s all plumbing. Period. Full Stop. You can try and obfuscate it and confuse it and add ever damned layer of nuance you want, but if you have an outtie, to the Men’s room you go. An innie means you get to use the little girl’s room.

Maybe some common sense will invade your tiny little mind, so overfilled with BS psychology and the rationalization that you really, deeply and truly are another gender, but that doesn’t change the facts of plumbing.

If you can’t see that very clear and simple fact, then we may as well be teaching a gold fish to tap dance in laying out the facts, because your gender bent mind is never going to absorb them.

I’m just amazed that you had the brain power to turn on a computer, let alone get on to the Internet.

Hey, guess what? Gov. Deval Patrick, a strong supporter of the bill weighed in on the bathroom issue.

So, when asked about it, he shot it right down and said that this bill wouldn’t allow men to go into women’s bathrooms, right?
Nope, sorry. His response was: “Somehow we manage at home with bathrooms that don’t have ’men’ and ’women’ on them. And we can probably figure that out on public spaces, too,” Patrick said.

So Deval’s response is that women won’t even have a bathroom anymore, that there will be people of both sexes using every bathroom. Wow, that’s great. The children of Massachusetts are really safe from predators now.

Er…yes it does.

You may want to check with the Massachusetts Transgender Political Coalition that’s promoting this bill.

“Question: Why is this policy needed?
• Many people are denied equal treatment on college campuses in regards to education, housing, and bathrooms on the
basis of gender identity or expression.”

Hey wait, I think I just saw the word “BATHROOM” in there.

As you say, you may want to go online and search for yourself:
http://www.masstpc.org/pubs/collegetalkingpoints.pdf

if you have a sausage, you are classified a male, and should use the men’s room. If you have a taco, you are classified a female, and therefore should use the women’s room.

There’s a bit of a problem with that.

You have to understand a bit about how transsexuality is treated first. Like everything from Heart Disease to Ingrown Toenails, there’s a medical “Standard of Care”, an official best practice, that medics have to follow or risk being busted for malpractice. The WPATH 6th edition is available in dead-tree form here, but it’s just a word-for-word copy of that produced by HBIGDA, which is available online so you can check it for yourself.

OK, so how is someone who’s transsexual treated?

First, they get referred to a mental health professional, to make sure they’re not obviously nutso. This mental health medic has to examine them over a minimum of three months – and often many years – to diagnose the situation. But at some time, maybe months, maybe decades, they’ll decide that the patient qualifies for the next step. So they write a formal letter of authorisation.

That letter is sent to an endocrinologist, who will then start hormonal treatment of the patient to change the body, monitoring the situation to ensure the various health risks that can arise, don’t. A minimal dose is prescribed first, which has no effect other than rendering the patient impotent, but which will reveal most of the problems before any permanent damage can occur. The dose is then ramped up over 6 months, and about that time, pubescent changes start to be visible. The changes will continue over the next 2-7 years.

At some stage after that, usually when the patient’s body has been changed enough so that it looks androgenous, there’s the start of the “real Life Experience”. Which has been accurately described as like having to juggle chainsaws while walking a tightrope.

The patient must live in the social role of the target gender 24/7, 365 days a year, for at least one year with no breaks at all. They must change all their documentation, get a new gender-appropriate name legally recognised, and must provide evidence that their friends, neighbours, families, and employer knows about their change.

Note the employer. Because not only must they do this, they must use the correct restrooms of their target gender as well as hold down a fulltime job or course of study.

If they can’t do this, then further treatment will be refused. Yes, this does mean that to qualify for necessary medical treatment, they must break the law in some states. The theory is that if they can’t do this, then either they lack the required motivation, or more usually, the society is so bigoted where they live that a gender transition is impracticable, and they should just kill themselves.

You can see the problem here. And of course many trans people are Intersexed, so may have neither taco nor sausage.

Anyway, after at least a year of this RLE, the Real Life Experience, and often far longer, sometimes decades, the original Mental Health medic finally decides that yes, surgery is appropriate, so writes another letter of permission to a surgeon.

But wait… two letters are required. The whole casefile must be reviewed now by a post-doctoral specialist in the area, a multiple PhD, who may decide that additional requirements must be met. And then put his whole professional reputation on the line by signing the second letter. This gives the patients permission to spend between $20,000 and $120,000, not covered by either medicare or 98% of health insurance policies, on surgery. It’s unlike any other surgery in that respect.

The surgeon then verifies these letters are genuine, interviews the patient, and only if the surgeon is convinced too, will he be willing to operate.

The whole process takes a minimum of 15 months, 12 of which the patient has to use the restroom of the target gender despite not having had surgery. Usually it takes a minimum of 3 years, often 7, sometimes 20.

My own is one of the few that isn’t well understood. There’s about a dozen different ways something like this could happen in theory that we know of, but not all of these have ever been observed to actually occur. And about half of the cases of this syndrome don’t follow any of the predicted patterns.

You asked where I got my data from. Mostly dead-tree publications, but I also gave a URL which in turn links to the most comprehensive meta-study on the subject. A good paper is On the Calculation of the Prevalence of Transsexualism by Onslager and Conway, presented at the WPATH (World Professional Association for Transgender Health) 20th International Symposium, Chicago, Illinois, September 5-8, 2007.

None of this psychobabble changes the fact that Massachusetts is about to pass a law that will force young girls or women to have to go into a bathroom where there may be grown men “legally” hanging out.

Er… no it doesn’t. In fact, all it does is add the words “gender identity and expression” to existing legislation that covers discrimination based on race, or sexual orientation, or religion etc. That’s it. Not a word about “bathrooms” in it.

The full text is available online, so you can see for yourself. Why not go to that page and search for terms like “bathroom”, “restroom”, “toilet” etc.

If there really was a problem about “grown men in the little girls room”, you’d expect some groups to be adamantly against it. Women’s advocacy groups. Womens legal groups. Groups that try to minimise violence against children. Rape survivors networks.

“We find it incredulous that rather than speaking out against the violence perpetrated against those who are transgender because of their gender identity, the opposition has fabricated fear about the violence that someone who is transgender, or who pretends to be, will inflict on you and me,” said Toni Troop, director of communications for the statewide domestic violence coalition Jane Doe Inc.
Other organizations announcing their support for the bill at the press conference included the Massachusetts chapter of the National Organization for Women (Mass. NOW), the Massachusetts Society for the Prevention of Cruelty to Children (MSPCC), the City of Boston Women’s Commission, the City of Cambridge Women’s Commission, the League of Women Voters, the Massachusetts chapter of the National Association of Social Workers, the National Council of Jewish Women, the Victim Rights Law Center, and the Women’s Bar Association. Mass. NOW organized the press conference.
Nancy Scannell, director of policy and planning for the MSPCC, said her organization supports H.1728 because it believes “that discrimination is a serious detriment to the wellbeing of children and families.” She also disputed claims that the bill would put children at risk of attacks by sexual predators.
“But let me also address the relationship of this bill to the terrible scourge of child sexual abuse. Simply put, it has none,” said Scannell.
Marie Turley, executive director of the City of Boston Women’s Commission, said in the years since Boston passed a citywide transgender-inclusive non-discrimination ordinance in 2002 there has been no increase in victimization of women and children in public bathrooms.
“We have found in those seven years that the kinds of fears and trepidations that this campaign is raising have not been actualized,” said Turley.
Whether the organizations’ efforts to rebut the “bathroom bill” rhetoric at the press conference were successful remains to be seen. The conference attracted little media attention on the day of the hearing before the judiciary committee. Other than this reporter there appeared to be only two other journalists in the audience

It doesn’t sell you see. Mass Hysteria about perverts and “think of the children” makes great reading in the Leftist-dominated media, where it’s all show and no substance. Check your intellect at the door.

If the bill’s opponents were really concerned about children, they’d think about the attacks on Intersexed and Trans children – usually girls – who are compelled to go to the wrong bathrooms in some states by threat of legal sanction. Those attacks, unlike the hysterical claims of MassResistance about what might happen one day, actually do happen.

They:

look the same-same features, same equipment, same bone structure, same hormones, the same body hair. Right?

think the same. Both think bathroom humor is hilarious, both cry at weddings, both love Angie and Brad and make whale noises in the bathroom. Right?

Don’t let the right wing crazies get to you Frank…….men and women are exactly the same, except when they are different, but even then because they are different they are the same…………..Ok, sorry but I have to stop now, trying to think like a liberal makes me dizzy and nauseous.

It’s the exact same feeling I get every time I hear the term Senator Frankin.

Simply stating that they now identify themselves as a woman will make it against the law for a cop to ask them to leave.

Simply not acceptable, no matter who’s “feelings” are hurt.

Brain Gender Identity by Ecker, 2009 APA annual conference proceedings

Abstract:
Gender Identity is that innate sense of who you are in this world with reference to your sexuality and behavior, not necessarily corresponding to your genitalia and reproductive organs. Transgenders are atypical and “think” as the opposite gender. Certain areas of the brain have been shown to be sexually dimorphic. They are different in structure and numbers of neurons in males versus females. Protein Receptors for the sex hormones in different areas of the brain (limbic and anterior hypothalamic) must be present in sufficient numbers to receive those powerful hormones. There are androgen receptors (AR), Estrogen Receptors (ER), and Progesterone receptors (PRs). ARs or ERs are predominant at different times in different parts of the human brain. Hormone receptor genes have been identified in humans, which are responsible for sexually dimorphic brain differentiation in the hypothalamus. The groundwork in brain gender identity is gene-directed and takes place by forming male and female hormone receptors in the brain before the gonads and hormones can influence them. Multiple genes acting in concert determine our sexual identity. The human brain continues to make neurons and synaptic neuronal connections throughout life. This contributes to Gender Role Behaviors making individuals in the continuum of gender identity. Gender behaviors must be differentiated from gender identity (Hines). Gender Identity cannot be predicted from anatomy (Reiner). Brain gender identity is determined very early in fetal development, but gender expression, expressed as behaviors requires hormonal, environmental, social and cultural interactions, which evolve with time. One cannot deny the profound effects of Testosterone, Estradiol and other steroids on genital differentiation in-utero or their effects on behavior from birth or the physical and mental cross gender changes caused by exogenous hormones, but gender identity is determined before and persists in spite of these effects.

Male-to-female transsexuals show sex-atypical hypothalamus activation when smelling odorous steroids. by Berglund et al Cerebral Cortex 2008 18(8):1900-1908;

…the data implicate that transsexuality may be associated with sex-atypical physiological responses in specific hypothalamic circuits, possibly as a consequence of a variant neuronal differentiation.

Male–to–female transsexuals have female neuron numbers in a limbic nucleus. Kruiver et al J Clin Endocrinol Metab (2000) 85:2034–2041

The present findings of somatostatin neuronal sex differences in the BSTc and its sex reversal in the transsexual brain clearly support the paradigm that in transsexuals sexual differentiation of the brain and genitals may go into opposite directions and point to a neurobiological basis of gender identity disorder.

Sexual differentiation of the human brain: relevance for gender identity, transsexualism and sexual orientation. Swaab Gynecol Endocrinol (2004) 19:301–312.
Solid evidence for the importance of postnatal social factors is lacking. In the human brain, structural diferences have been described that seem to be related to gender identity and sexual orientation.

A sex difference in the human brain and its relation to transsexuality. by Zhou et al Nature (1995) 378:68–70.

Our study is the first to show a female brain structure in genetically male transsexuals and supports the hypothesis that gender identity develops as a result of an interaction between the developing brain and sex hormones

A sex difference in the hypothalamic uncinate nucleus: relationship to gender identity. by Garcia-Falgueras et al Brain. 2008 Dec;131(Pt 12):3132-46.

We propose that the sex reversal of the INAH3 in transsexual people is at least partly a marker of an early atypical sexual differentiation of the brain and that the changes in INAH3 and the BSTc may belong to a complex network that may structurally and functionally be related to gender identity.

And so on and so on. I picked that selection as they’re on the web, and not behind pay-per-view firewalls. I can give dozens more, this isn’t controversial. Just not well-known. And the results are not just arrogant opinions, but ignorant ones like some expressed here. Arrogance is excusable when it’s informed. Ignorance is curable by education. But bigotry, that’s invincible ignorance married to implacable arrogance. Pride in stupidity, with more than a hint of cruelty, something more often found on the Left than the Right.

If you count all the minor syndromes, the minor glitches that it would take a lab test or ultrasound to detect, and which mostly have no effect other than reducing fertility, 1 in 60 people are technically Intersexed. Neither wholly male nor wholly female in terms of their body. That’s about 5 million people in the USA. There’s tens of thousands of people who, if given a gene test, would be considered the opposite sex if they lived in Kansas. Most don’t know, and you could be one of them, your marriage void, even if you’ve had children, simply because you have the “wrong chromosomes” in one part of your body.

Oh yes – although male to female natural changes (unlike most Intersex conditions) really are so rare as to be statistically insignificant, that’s little comfort if you’re one of them. It’s hilarious and definitely poetic justice though when it happens to a Right Wing politblogger with a track record of conservatism as Tim Blair describes. I think few would describe him as a radical Lefty.

Bit of a problem though : there’s records of over 2000 surgeries on US citizens per year. And all other countries show rates of about 1 in 3500 for women and 1 in 11,000 for men.

If you want to get the best estimate, read this analysis on the subject. The “official figures” that haven’t been updated for 40 years are out by a factor of at least 10. Heck, if they were true, no trans person would exist in the USA, as they’ve all been murdered, sometimes twice. A bit like the Lancet figures for deaths in Mosul.

The rate for natural sex-changes, ones that happen due to Intersex conditions such as 5alpha-reductase-2 deficiency and 17beta-hydroxysteroid dehydrogenase-3 deficiency are higher than 1 in 130,000. A spectacular 1 in 90 men in the Dominican Republic were born looking like baby girls, but are guevedoches with 5ARD, and masculinise at puberty. A similar rate is found in the Sambia tribe in PNG, the Turnim-Man. There’s similar clusters in Italy and Turkey too. The rate in the US from spontaneous mutation of the two conditions combined is about 1 in 50,000, so there’s thousands of American males who have “Female” on their original birth certificate. Even though many have fathered children.

Male to Female natural changes are rare though, maybe 1% of all natural sex changes in humans. So rare we don’t have a good estimate, and with so few samples, that syndrome isn’t well understood.

All of this stuff is on the web. Try looking at “Gender change in 46,XY persons with 5alpha-reductase-2 deficiency and 17beta-hydroxysteroid dehydrogenase-3 deficiency” by Cohen-Ketternis, or “17β-Hydroxysteroid dehydrogenase-3 deficiency: A rare endocrine cause of male-to-female sex reversal” by Bertelloni et al. Or “The sambia “turnim-man”: Sociocultural and clinical aspects of gender formation in male pseudohermaphrodites with 5-alpha-reductase deficiency in Papua New Guinea” by Herdt and Davidson. Google is your friend.

For what trans women really look like, and the kinds of professions they’re really in, see this list, or this one, or this one, or this one, or for the men, this one.

“Family Bathrooms” is about as far as I’m willing to give in on this issue. I have a ‘shy’ bladder and like using the Family rooms because no one else is in there unless I invite them.

Since you go by what the American Psychiatric Association says, fair enough, here’s some symposia from their annual meeting:

S6. “In or Out?”: A Discussion About Gender Identity Diagnoses and the DSM (DSM Track DM03)

1. The DSM-V Revision Process: Principles and Progress William E. Narrow, M.D.
2. Beyond Conundrum: Strategies for Diagnostic Harm Reduction Kelley Winters, Ph.D.
3. Aligning Bodies With Minds: The Case for Medical and Surgical Treatment of Gender Dysphoria Rebecca Allison, M.D.
4. The Role of Medical and Psychological Discourse in Legal and Policy Advocacy for Transgender Persons in the U.S. Shannon P. Minter, J.D.

You see, we have the little problem that it’s classed as a mental illness, but obviously isn’t one. Yet if we take it out of the manual of mental illnesses, people will be denied treatment for it. So we need to move it from the mental illnesses area to the physical illnesses one, just as the discovery of the helicobacter organism caused stomach ulcers to be moved out similarly.

There’s also this symposium:

S10. The Neurobiological Evidence for Transgenderism

1. Brain Gender Identity Sidney W. Ecker, M.D.
2. Transsexuality as an Intersex Condition Milton Diamond, Ph.D.
3. Novel Approaches to Endocrine Treatment of Transgender Adolescents and Adults Norman Spack, M.D.

You know, the proof from fMRI scans, autopsies, and recently, even more simple tests based on those results to detect neurological Intersex. Male brain in female body or the reverse, stuff that may not please Lefties who say it’s all a social construct, but factual and repeatable.

Here’s what Prof. Ecker wrote to me:

Hi Zoe,

Yes, we gave our presentation to 60 plus psychiatrists from the US, AU, FR, IT, EU, UK, Holland etc.

We spoke for 2 1/2 hours on why cross gender identity was a normal inherited variation of humans. We showed how Transgender Brains think, smell, and hear like the opposite sex. We presented internationally accepted guidelines for hormonal treatment of transsexuals to be published Summer 2009.

Here are my slides and with my participants’ permission I shall send you theirs. We are now in print in the APA Syllabus and soon in the APA Journal this summer. I am checking if we were recorded.

My greatest personal compliment came from Frank Kruijver, from Holland, whose research of the human brain in TSs started it all. He thought we have taken his work very far in our understanding of the human brain. Hope you can do something with this.

Sid Ecker, M.D.

I may be aberrant – heck, “freakish” is closer. But at least I’m not a piece of ambulatory offal, a miserable failure at being human, who gets their jollies by seeing others beaten up because they “look funny”. As some do.