I’m glad people are finally starting to look at our college system and say, “You know, this is actually kind of idiotic.” It just makes no sense anymore; college is becoming increasingly expensive and increasingly worthless. If the current trend continues, eventually only the three richest kings of Europe will be able to afford a college education, and all it will do is secure a job at Arby’s.
I mean, college has become a status symbol — a really, really expensive status symbol of no inherent value. You’re supposed to get a college degree — though people aren’t really sure why. Do most people actually learn anything there they couldn’t learn more quickly and more efficiently elsewhere? I mean, I went to a really good college — Carnegie Mellon — which I’m still paying off — to get a degree in Electrical and Computer Engineering. I learned a lot there, but I still learned far more in my first year of actually working in a job. In my opinion as an educated engineer, it seems like there has to be a better, less costly, and more efficient system to get the same skills. It’s hard to get real world experience at a college — in fact, they’ve become oases from the real world. That’s why the dumbest left wing philosophies can only survive there.
It seems like the main point of college is to extend adolescence for four more years. And if you’ve ever met an adolescent, why in the world would you want to do that? Time to focus less on whether our children are getting educations and more on whether they actually know how to do anything useful.
Also, Re: college costs: http://www.straighterline.com/
There’s book-learning and then there’s learning by doing. A good combination of the two wouldn’t be a bad system. I’ve long advocated a return to an Apprentice system in many fields, both professional and trade.
Heh. Did you notice the ads at the foot of the post? One is how to get Uncle Sam to pay for your college; the other is how to earn a Civil Engineering degree! The Google sometimes has a wicked sense of humor. Or, it’s just wicked.
Everyone learns what they need to know at work. A college degree is just proof of your ability to function in an environment where there are some actual standards.
Does anyone think a HS degree is proof of ability? Take a look at a list of classes for most junior colleges. There are ten pages of ENG101 classes being offered at most community colleges because so many public school graduates have to take ENG101 four or five times before learning what they need to learn or dropping out.
I did lots of learnin’ in College. At the University of Iowa I was instructed by the best to roll a proper joint and to tell the difference between purple haze and orange micro-dot! Even though I was a Trumpet Performance major, most of my time was spent studying Chemistry! I couldn’t wait to get to class either! I was an A+ student who went directly to the head of my class!!! Like Peace Man…
Perhaps it’s all simply a scam to raise the price of labor.
End Government subsidies and grants to Universities. End Government backed college loans. Natural Selection will then thin the herd.
You mean, kinda like Barack Obama teaching Constitutional law?
I attended college and met some of the dumbest people I’ve ever met there. Sure, then can pass a class but do they learn anything real? I think going to college goes to their head, they think they know everything because they went to college.
I learned more from my 4 years in the US Air Force and working for a living than in school. I still think college is a good thing, but it doesn’t make you smarter or give you common sense.
I spent too much time teaching to think much about education. Spoiled brats with mush for brains and parents who think I “gave” grades. Nope Eggbert your prodigy earned that C. Luck I was in a good mood
If anything get rid of the useless classes for a degree. My wife had to take biology and art history for an accounting degree
I learned and gained a strong skill set during college and graduate school. I wouldn’t trade it for worlds. College and graduate school provided me with skills that I now apply directly in my work, and my employers have valued the these skills, often above other skills I have learned while working.
I think it depends on why a person goes and what they want to get out of it. I knew exactly what I wanted to get out of my education. It also depends very much on the college. As for becoming a rounded individual, I had to take general survey courses in other disciplines; however, I enjoyed them and learned much. I think this was a function of the college I attended.
Bottom line: I know I got my money’s worth out of my undergraduate and graduate education; however, I know I’m in the minority.
Fully agree with your post, Burmashave.
“I learned and gained a strong skill set during college and graduate school. I wouldn’t trade it for worlds.”
I would. Even one world. Heck, an asteroid would do. At the very least I could sell it and live the rest of my life as I am now, except with money.
Carnegie Mellon would be a better school if you didn’t have to go to Pittsburgh to attend.
I spent three years at Marietta College, majoring in nothing much, then shipped off to Naval School of Health Sciences San Diego, where I learned more useful information in one year than in my three at Marietta combined, after which I ended up at Naval Hospital Lemoore, CA, where I promptly learned that very little of that useful information was particularly useful.
Now I go to Kent Read, Kent Write, Kent State (motto:14,885 days since our last fatal riot), because the job I want requires a Bachelor’s, for no other reason than they want a Bachelor’s as a requirement. I have learned a number of interesting things, like:
and:
how to make links.
I suspect I would have learned more, and better, had I learned it on the job.
I totally agree that our college education system is messed up. I feel like I learned a lot in college, but I got a degree in computer engineering from a very teching-focused school (Rose-Hulman Institute of Technology). Other than some retarded humanities classes I had to take, I actually learned a lot, and I don’t think that much learning could be condensed into a much shorter timeframe.
However, I think engineering and other professional degrees are the exception to the rule. When I graduated I was able to quickly find a job where I used the skills I had learned – skills that would take too long to learn “on the job”. But I feel that any degree that doesn’t directly lead to a solid, well-paying career isn’t really worth it.
And don’t get me started on “women’s studies” majors — I’d ridiculously mock them if my tax dollars weren’t going to pay for their welfare checks.
I learned a lot there, but I still learned far more in my first year of actually working in a job.
Is it possible that you learned that much because college had prepared you to learn it? I’m asking that as a serious question. I find that many people who don’t write software anywhere near as well as I do can still learn new languages and techniques faster than I do. I was educated as an accountant and attorney before seeing the light. I’ve always attributed the facility with which those others can pick up those new things to the fact that they’d somehow learned how to do it (the people about whom I’m talking have master’s or PhD degrees in electrical engineering or computer science).
Christ! Seven years of college down the drain! Might as well join the F—in’ Peace Corpse!
Iowa Jim,
To answer your question seriously, I’ve hired so many of the finest graduates of universities over the years, and one thing I’ve learned is that they are definitely NOT prepared to learn…as they think they already know it all. The first day on the job, they usually proclaim that the owner of the company is an idiot and has no idea what he’s doing, and how they have all the answers to spend tons of money revamping the company to do it right. In these businesses, the owner usually drove a Mercedes, Jaguar, etc. and lived in an estate, while the college grad with all the answers drives a 10 year old piece of crap and lives with his parents – one would think that would be enough that a college graduate could figure out that maybe he had some things to learn…but, alas not.
I’m a college student, and I approve this message.
Frankly, I don’t have much of a problem with the majority of the education system (other than the presence of liberal dingbats), but Eric hit the nail on the head. “Liberal education” courses are the object of all my righteous hatred. If I’m going for an education in the biological sciences (and I am), then why would I actually need anything taught in useless classes like literature, sociology, and –worst of all–journalism. And as if that’s not already bad enough, universities invariably have the nerve to claim that “liberal education” has nothing to do with being politically “liberal,” even though liberals have even more of a majority among professors of useless subjects than among professors of useful subjects. Also agree with Ernie about the presence of worse-than-useless majors. At my university, the “Womens’ Studies” he mentioned is now only the second-worst major, having been replaced by “GLBT Studies.”
I (continued working) in the US and Europe for 6 years before I went to a community college & then a private college (not Ivy) after HS. (Not a trust fund baby, I paid for it. College payments were originally to Marine Midland, later changed to Sallie Mae, and then changed to Fannie Mae. Sound familiar?) Got me an 11 year career high paying job. Was overall worth it/but at what cost. And that was the 1990s during our “first black President”.
Frank, you want to come up with a better system? Nanobots. We inject nanobots into our bodies, and they then colonize inside our brain. There, they interconnect with our neurons, and help make us smarter. They can be programed with whatever information you need, and then that information is transferred directly from them, into your memories. Instead of spending four years in college, you then spend a couple hundred dollars to download four years of college memories, and wallah, you are just as smart as anyone who actually went, but now have four more years back to your life. Same could be done for most of your K-12 education, but you might need at least k-9 in order to learn how to properly socialize, provide free labor until you can work.
Lolziter, here’s the reason for liberal arts courses. If done properly, they teach writing and thereby pure reasoning skills. The problem is that they are rarely taught well, especially at large schools.
I think that professors are the most broken piece in higher education, and I believe that’s where my perspective is different. My undergraduate years sharpened my critical reasoning skills. In fact, it would be hard to get through my liberal arts college without sharpening one’s reasoning abilities, because my professors absolutely demand it. Similarly, my business school is not like most graduate schools. The school requires its professors to remain relevant, and nearly all of them do consulting on the side. Most have had extremely successful careers before “retiring” to teach. These folks work in the real world, and they made sure we’d have skills we could use.
For most students, $40k/year pays for professors who will never see the real world, and who don’t really care whether their students receive something valuable for all that tuition. Added to this are the vast number of students who are parking themselves for 4 years before real life. They ensure that neither the professors nor the schools will challenge them.
Hey after I reply to this post, WE’RE GOING STREAKING!! DOWN TO THE QUAD!! There’s a few more people coming…
“It seems like the main point of college is to extend adolescence for four more years.”
Close, but it isn’t mainly about the student.
The main point of college is tenure: extending adolescense into senescence.
Anything student centered isn’t just secondary
it’s further down the priority list than secondary.
That’s why they call it a “post-secondary” education.
See you at the quad, Carolyn.
Carolyn, I’m in! I did the streaking thing at Iowa in the 70’s! I’m an expert, so says science!
I agree one thousand percent, Frank.
I agree with Frank. And Jessica.
If you don’t go to college in this day and age your out of your mind !!!
Sure, if you get a degree in nothing your not getting a good job. Study engineering, nursing, accounting, pharmacy or law , and you’ll be in a much better position then a HS graduate.
The worst thing you could ever do is put off college after graduating HS. Get the degree as soon as possible and major in a specialized field and you’ll be making big bucks in no time. Theres to many intelligent people in this country who take great pride in not going to college, don’t follow in their foot steps, they are classic underachievers with no ambition.
And complaining about not being able to afford college is not an excuse. Go to a public college, their affordable.