I had to work late lastnight, and, right now, am in work on what’s supposed to be a day off. Anyway, I’m afraid I had no time to get any post together. Hopefully I’ll be out of here by the afternoon and I’ll put something up for the weekend.
Anyway, I hear people are getting their Nuke the Moon t-shirts. Hooray! Have fun with them, and I can’t wait to see for Peace Gallery photos. Hopefully we’ll have SarahK’s modeling photos of all the shirts soon.
Also, I just learned from American Rifleman that Glock has made it’s own .45 cartridge (the .45 G.A.P.). Why did no one inform me of this blasphemy? Bad readers?
Back to work…
Why didn’t the Imperial Firearms Advisor fill you in?
I got my tshirt yesterday, and tried it out right when I got home from work. It was, for some reason, toasty warm.
It made me feel so… peaceful.
Frank,
You don’t want to know. It’s just another dreary reinvention of the wheel.
Work keeps the economy strong.
A strong economy is good for America.
You don’t have something against America, do you?
Work more!
The .45 G.A.P. should be called the .45 G.A.Y., because there is no logic for copying the .45 ACP, modifying (shortening) it, and trying to say it is better than the .45 ACP. They probably did it to help cut down on the recoil in Glock pistols cough lightweight polymer cough resulting from the big .45 ACP. Glock needs to stick to its own little Eurotrash calibers and leave our calibers alone.
Metric calibers????
Anyway, the Imperial Armorer should have sent a memo.
Sorry about that, but since my Dad’s glock blew apart in his hand I haven’t really given a flying you-know-what about anything they do. As I see it, a plastic gun is a pretty silly idea. I would note that when my 1911 had the same problem with the same batch of bad ammo I ended up with a grand total of one broken magazine, ( it just blew out the bottom of the mag). I just changed magazines and kept shooting. Fortunately my Dad wasn’t injured, but the Glock 21 was deadernhell. I think plastic guns are the product of anti-gun nazi mad scientists. Dad has now returned to the 1911 as his primary sidearm like a good soldier.
A .45 Glock. BFD. Making a .45 cartridge is something that every pistol manufacturer eventually tries to do. S&W did it in the 1880’s for their new revolver. So did Colt. Which is remembered? The Brits did it in the early 1900’s for their Mars automatic pistol. So did Colt. Which is still in use? Detonics did it, Wildey did it, and so have a score of others. The .45acp still rules.
1gewehr,
I concur entirely. Until brass cases, Boxer/Berdan primers, nitrocellulose powder and lead projectiles are replaced, there’s much new of any consequence and there hasn’t been in the last 100 years or so. The .40 filled the “vast void” between the 9 and the 45. Now we seem to need another 45 to fill the vast void between the 40 and the, ummm, 45.
As Jeff Cooper observed, you can get yourself into a world of trouble by asking what something is for.
Nick,
Shame on you. Glocks never go Ka-Boom! (The fact that a word was coined to describe it is all deceitful 1911A1 propaganda…)
Frank,
Actually, I have an issue of Autopistols which has an article about the new 45 GAP, and it got good reviews. The guy who did the article started out very doubting of it, but ended up very impressed. Now, I don’t think it’ll catch on and become a popular ammo, but according to the article, it improves on the standard 45 round with no apparent drawbacks. Personally, I’m still a fan of the 40, at least that’s what I chose to have as my personal carry (Glock 27).
-Brian
As for those who are anti-glock: There’s something to be said for a gun that can spend 6 months at the bottom of the Pacific Ocean and still come out shooting perfectly, and continue to shoot perfectly, with the same size grouping, after 175,000 rounds, fire while covered in mud, underwater, caked in sand, and be dropped from 50 feet over 300 times without discharging once. If some bad ammo blew up your gun, I’d say the problem is your ammo, not your gun.
-Brian
.45GAP is a pure ego caliber. Gaston Glock could not stand not having a caliber with his name on it. It serves no purpose. It has no point. It is useless.
.45ACP Glocks are exploding, and they think they can make a higher pressure round in the same caliber safe? Yeah right, whatever.
Another point; if Glock is going for higher velocity, they should have realized that problem is already taken care of, via .45 ACP +P and .45 Super. Those silly foreigners.
Hand guns are for kids, real men use nuke’s.
I’m not sure that the Imperial Firearms Advisor(tm) is interested in anything newer than the 1930’s design M1 Garand.
The .45 Glock is a niche round. It’s only reason for existance is to fit in the smallest Glocks that were built around the 9×19. In a full length .45 ACP case those small Glocks don’t have room for a bullet, there simply isn’t enough slide travel.
With the many advances in smokeless powder technology since 1911, there’s no reason the ,45 ACP case NEEDS to be .893 inch long for there to be enough powder room to get the original ballistics. The .750 inch long .45 Glock case is big enough for that but only with 200 grain and lighter bullets. If one is a fan of the traditional 230 grain bullet that the slabsided ol’ punkin roller put out, you’re SOL.
The .45 Glock falls short to the .45 ACP in the area of handloading potential, of course. Put a stiffer recoil spring in a 1911 and a handloader can use a compressed charge of Alliant’s Blue Dot and beat the .45 Glock by 100 fps, easily, more if one is willing to be hard on the gun.
I believe that the .45 Glock is the perfect answer to a question few are asking. Still, if you want .45 ACP performance in a 22.2 ounce, 7.3 inch long shootin’ iron (shootin’ plastic?) and can get your hands on the excellent Speer ‘flying ashtray’ 200 gr. JHP or the almost as good Speer 200 gr. Gold Dot Hollow Point or Sierra 200 gr JHC, Hornaday XTP 200 gr. Hollow Point, a handloading press and a cannister of Hodgdon’s Longshot Powder, you’re in business.
Pesonally I’ll stick to my revolvers.
Five years ago I bought a used Glock 17 9mm with a hi-cap mag from a former LEO because it was an unbelievable bargain, a deal I just couldn’t refuse. My goal was twofold: to teach the wife to shoot and to have one more tool in the armament when the world came to an end (does anyone remember Y2K?). Since then I have shot hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of all types of ammo rounds through that pistol and it has not jammed, misfired, or looked at me cross-eyed even one time. I wish I could shoot as well as it shoots.
Admittedly, the 9mm is a little bit puny, but hey, I’m not going to stop firing until its empty, 17 slugs later.
Plastic is as plastic does, and this one does very well.
-Zeb
“But I’m not supposed to be here!”
We’re all trapped at work.
Not me! I’m on lunch break 😉
I’m not @ work either! But then again, Im only 19… so I start @ 930. sigh
I’m trapped at work too! And going through IMAO withdraws, it’s what gets me through the afternoon!
–I am a long time revolver and 1911 fan. Two years ago, I started this new job and they issue us Glock .40’s. I had always held Glock in contempt. Now, though, I have fired tens of thousands of rounds through mine and it has done nothing but continue performing very well. I have to agree with Zeb… “plastic is as plastic does…” mine does great, too.
–Now, away from that topic. FRANK!! Your random quote led me to re-read your letter to Michael Moore. Damn, but that was superbly fantastical!!! Anyway, fat boy is back in the new with his latest movie crap (this one says that President Bush was behind 9-11 and stuff like that). Can you PLEASE, PLEASE, PLEASE send him more mail soon???
You mean you’re just now hearing about that? Jeeze. If I’d have known you didn’t know, I’d have told ya!!
It’s an astounding round, and I don’t even like Glocks…
Devil Dog –
“Two years ago, I started this new job and they issue us Glock .40’s.”
Now I’m curious. What job would that be? LEO? Soldier? Security guard?
Please don’t say “postal worker”… 🙂
You are the weapon and your firearm is just a tool.
Any gun will do, if you will do.
sam
I think a good comparison of the 1911 vs. a Glock would be like comparing a WWII Jeep and a new SUV. The Jeep is old, ugly, does its duties without fail every time and will not break…EVER. The new SUV is boxy, mostly plastic, and has all kinds of modern conveniences and technology; it just doesn’t have that classic aura or character.
I’m a steel-and-wood firearm guy, but I can see how polymers are useful on the battlefield and on the street. I’m just not fond of the squared grip of Glocks, and for me, nothing beats a good wood stock.
.45? Pshaw…thats a wussie-gun. Real men carry duel .50 Desert Eagles. “Truth” engraved on one, and “Justice” engraved on the other.
That’s what you get for answering the phone on your day off Frank! I was told by a guy at my gun shop that the .45 GAP was created to match specs from some Austrian police departments. Fortunately, he didn’t even try to talk me into buying one. My Glock 21 works great, but I tried pistol whipping some guy with it once and it just pissed him off.
IN OTHER NEWS–
“Survivor” creator Mark Burnett announced last night the new location for the next series in the high successful reality show franchise, “Survivor: West Virginia.”
Contestents will trade low-cut bikinis and high humidity for low IQs and high levels of incest. While details of the next season are still sketchy, rumor has it that host Jeff Propst will be replaced by Ned Beatty. Local favorite Lyndie England is being considered an early front runner in game.
Ok, I gotta jump on this not because I own a Glock (although my S&W Sigma is their version of same, and it was my first firearm purchase) but because it reminds me of an encounter I had at a Whiskey Expo last March.
There is a certian microbrewery who also makes (or sells) a single malt Scotch along with a few types of beers, and I have been acquainted with said products prior to this event.
What struck me funny was the guy behind the table telling me “You ought to have one of the beers with the Scotch to really enjoy it. The beer helps bring out more flavors.”
So in my mind I’m thinking “Ok, I know your Scotch isn’t that great, and now you’re confirming it by telling me I might as well drink it as part of a Boilermaker?” The whole point being, it’s just an example of one item being used to push product, the same as the .45 GAP round reason for existence is to push more Glock pistols, in my view.
Ok people, back to work (‘cept for me…still looking and not having much luck here in lovely Central Valley).
PS my other firearm which I bought new, not used like my Sigma, is a CZ 40, which is just kick-ass. Too bad they stopped making them.
The .40 Short & Weak filled a gap? You mean that gap they used to call the .38-40 (.38 WCF) for oh, I dunno, a century?!
I used to be a dyed-in-the-wool Glockenspieler – until I started mikeing the case heads.
Thank you, but no. I do a lot of shooting, most of it with handloads. I never had a “kB!” and I don’t want one. There’s a reason that shooting reloads of any kind nulls the Glock warranty – a good deal of that has to do with the chamber design and polygonal barrel. Add to this the fact that I wasn’t able to learn if my 36 was on the “upgrade” list and in need of a new frame. (Upgrading from “Perfection.” Hmmm…) Three of my Glocks went on the market. I kept the slick grip 17 with the Austrian proofs and shoot the hell out of it.
I’ve never had a bit of trouble with my 1911s. Statistically, they’re every bit as reliable in my hands as the Glocks and the spent brass mikes out without excessive case head stretch. I don’t store them on the bottom of the ocean or lubricate them with mud, so most of the Glock torture tests don’t mean much to me. I perform regular maintenance and I’ve never had a part break or wear out before I replaced it. I could get a poly barrel and get similar longevity, but that would make it more worrysome to shoot unjacketed or plated lead.
When gun makers start to saturate their markets, a simple way to increase sales is to produce a new, proprietary caliber. (No point in reciting the list of suspects.) It gets the fans excited and they usually buy more guns for a while. This appears to be the case with the new Glock round. No one yet has presented me with a convincing case as to what, exactly, I’m supposed to do with it that I couldn’t do before.
At the end of the day, it comes down to this: John Browning was a mechanical genius and the most successful firearms designer in history. (He also did the trigger job on Jebediah’s M1, I’m told.) The 1911 and Hi Power were the culmination of decades of his thought and experience. They’re not showing any sign of slowing down after all these decades.
Gaston Glock was a talented Tupperware maker who brought a truly revolutionary pistol design to market in a comparative few months. They’re fine pistols, provided you never shoot handloads. There have been some problems in scaling a 9mm Glock to a .40, 10mm and .45, and these have been discussed ad nauseam elsewhere. I won’t condemn them or anyone who likes them, but I’m not the enthusiast I once was.
I generally stick to revolvers. They don’t care what I feed them, work fine as long as I keep them clean and I don’t have to keep track of spendy pre-ban magazines. They point well, are accurate and fast in my hands, and if weight is an issue, both Taurus and Smith make big-bore lightweights that put a Glock or anything else to shame.
YMMV.
Evil Midnight Poster,
“Mjolnir” also works 😉
Richard,
“Perceived gap.” The same one that the .32 H&R Magnum filled. (You know, the one the .32-20 or .30 Carbine couldn’t…)
I would not even try to enter this discussion on my merits…it is obvious to me you folks know a hell of a lot more about semi-automatic pistols than I.
I just wanted to say, this week I fired for the first time, my brand spankin new Springfield Armory Fully Loaded 1911A1 Model 9109 .45 ACP pistol.
I like this gun.
A lot.
I’m done now.
Yep, I just got my Nuke the Moon shirt as well! Very high quality, I can’t WAIT to have people ask me…”nuke the moon…WTF?” Peace gallery pictures coming soon Frank.
As for the whole .45 GAP…ya know, it seems to me like people tend to get entrenched in their ways. Not that there is anything wrong with that. But for some reason, the general attitude is “oh, that’s not .45, so it’s crap,” or “give me a good revolver any day over that tupperware.” Don’t get my wrong, everyone is entitled to their opinion. But it seems to me that people can’t see the larger picture. A friend chastized me for saving up for a Kahr E9 (or P9, depending on price) because he thinks anything less that a .45 1911 isn’t worth it for consealed carry. My response was this: things are made for a different purpose, for different people’s taste. I WANT a small gun so I will be able to carry confortably, and consealed, and not leave it at home because it’s too large. We all know it won’t do my any good there. I want something in 9mm to start out with because it’s reasonably cheap to practice with and not much recoil. One of the new (plastic core I believe) federal or other hollow points will make a hole plenty large enough if you aim properly. And I like the way the Kahr fits in my hand (and the trigger), so that’s gonna be my purchase.
My point is this: the object of the .45 GAP was to get a .45 diameter bullet with the same FPS in a shorter case. Lighter and enables the grip to be smaller. Great I say! Why not? The same stopping power in an easier to grip (and hold on to, and carry) gun. An evolution, not a revolution, and Glock was successful in what they tried to do. I’ve seen several articles and they say in comparable weight bullets, the GAP wins in FPS. Even better. If Glock makes a 36-type gun for the .45 GAP, That will probably be my next purchase. If you’re not interested in it, fine, no problem. But don’t say it’s crap simply because it’s different or doesn’t fit your notion of a “proper” caliber, that’s just plain silly. Ok, rant over.
So what, like the Imperial Armorer wasn’t a cool position???? You thought the Imperial Firearms Advisor was cool…..like that’s what? a guidance counselor for guns????? sniff.
–Robin Munn: I am a weapons and tactics instructor for DOE’s nuclear protection SWAT/SRT teams. We shoot a lot. I took the job after twenty successful years doing much the same thing in the Marine Corps.
–Frank…? Michael Moore…?????
Huh?
Speaking of an item with no reason to live- what’s with the .17? I know most of these comments are about carry armament, but alot of shooters blast milions of .22 rounds a year. So, let’s get a 17 grain pebble going a zillion FPS for, I don’t know, 11 feet? It’ll scare the crap out of a chipmunk at 20 yards, I’m sure! The powder in my .44 mag handloads weighs more than that bullet. (Thank you E. Keith) Happy shooting one & all.
Funny how the wheel turns. Back when I had a Detonics, the Next Big Thing&trade was to get a longer, more potent .45 into a tiny frame. Now it seems to be getting a shorter, less potent .45 into a tiny frame.
doubletrouble…
From what I’ve read, the purpose of the .17HMR and now the .17 Mach 2 are to make stupidly high-velocity varmint rounds which purposely peel apart on impact to do more damage on things like growth-stunted prarie dogs and the like. I guess the designers want to push the small caliber/high velocity envelope.
Generally speaking, I like larger calibers moving at a healthy velocity…to be sure the round can handle the task at hand. Now I’m about to open a can of worms, so bear with me…I can’t stand that the 5.56mm NATO/.223 Remington is actually a standard military caliber. It’s used for varmint hunting, for Christ’s sake. Camel jockeys are a little bigger than rabbits and coyotes. IMO, a military rifle caliber should be .30, as that is very effective in taking down things like people and animals like deer, moose, wild pigs, etc.
This is just me talking out of my hiney, but I think the real reason the U.S. switched to the 5.56mm and 9mm (other than the 5.56mm being suited for use against bamboo huts and the like in Vietnam) is that our NATO partners couldn’t/wouldn’t handle our larger, more powerful calibers. Plus, if everyone uses the same ammo, you can share in emergency situations (read that as “we can give them some of our ammo”). I think the M14 is the epitome of a military rifle, and the 1911 is the standard for military sidearms.
That’s my $0.02
All I can say is, after reading Devil Dogs job description, “Waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaah!”
Day-um, I’m envious, and regret not going into the military when I was younger.
Oh well…
Moriarty — It’s just not much of an improvement to me if you can get the same result by stuffing the case full of fffG…
Richard,
Smokeless powder is overrated in pistols anyway… with black powder you can sling lead, lay down a smoke screen and set your opponent’s clothes on fire at the same time.
That’s what I call “ballistic efficiency!”
Jeez, Frank, don’t you read the gun rags? They’ve been talking about the .45 GAP for months. As some have belatedly pointed out, the sole purpose of the cartridge was to get a .45 caliber round in a regular Glock-sized grip. The gun rags mocked the cartridge mercilessly when it was first announced, but most of them seem to be pretty impressed, now that they’ve had a chance to shoot them.
Like Frank, I just read about the .45 GAP in Anerica Rifleman. That got me to thinkin’. If I were gonna make a proprietary cartridge, I start with the .45 ACP, keep it the same overall length, but stretch it sideways, to an even .50. I figure, keeping it short like the .45 ACP, it might be just as manageable. It seems that everyone who develops something above .45 caliber, creates something with the recoil of a crew-served weapon (.454 Casull, .480 Ruger, etc). Why not try for a big, fat, slow round that has manageable recoil? I think .50 ACP would be neat. A half-inch chunk of lead flying downrange, launched from a 1911-derived gun…
The .45 GAP, it is true, was intended primarily to allow a gun that fired a .45 caliber bullet while having the same frame size as Glocks in 9mm, .40, and .357 Sig. For many people, the .45 ACP Glocks are too large in the grip.
But the round is not simply a .45 ACP that’s been shortened. If you look at a cross section of the .45 GAP case, you see that it’s thicker down at the base (the case web) than the .45 ACP.
One of the reasons cited for “kaBooms” (or kB’s for short) in Glocks is that they don’t have fully-supported chambers. This is not a problem with 9mm pistols but the higher pressures of some other rounds, notably the .40 S&W, have resulted in some case web ruptures. This almost always occurs with reloads and not factory rounds. The reason for having a non-fully-supported chamber is to reduce feeding problems. Glocks will eat practically anything. There are aftermarket barrels with fully-supported chambers but they tend to be more picky about what ammo they will feed reliably.
Hence the thicker case web of the .45 GAP cartridge. It compensates for the chamber being not fully-supported and allows for the use of higher pressure loads than you can use in the .45 ACP.
And for the guy who made the comparison that Glock vs. 1911 is like modern SUV vs. WWII Jeep, the Glock is actually simper than the 1911. It has fewer parts and can be completely taken down and reassembled without special tools. Not that the 1911 isn’t a wonderful design. It has amply proven its worth. But the Glock design is wonderful as well. It’s a matter of personal preference mostly.
I’m a steel-and-wood firearm guy, but I can see how polymers are useful on the battlefield and on the street. I’m just not fond of the squared grip of Glocks, and for me, nothing beats a good wood[en] [stick].
I like the Glocks reputation for reliability.