Commenter FormerHostage wrote a response to my question. Given his first hand experience of the 444 days Americans were held hostage by Iranian radicals from November 4th, 1979, to January 20th, 1981, I think everyone should give this a read:
As my screenname indicates, I can speak with Complete Moral Authority ™ on this issue.
On the day of the takeover, the Marines were outnumbered at least 1000 to 1. We held the consulate and the communications vault for over 12 hours, helping to destroy equipment and classified material. We were under STRICT orders not to fire our weapons or pop gas grenades (too late for that last one..hee, hee, hee). We were eventually told that we were on or own and to make a break for it. The monkeys even put one of the diplomats in front of the comm vault peep eye with a pistol to their head and threatened to kill them unless the door was opened. It wasn’t and they didn’t. Once all the material was destroyed the doors were opened and they all got the crap beat out of them.
When we were first taken, the Iranians took us into a room individually and asked us to sign a statement denouncing the US policy in Iran, Israel, the Shah, etc. The Marines signed with names such as Michael Mouse, Chesty Puller, Dan Daly (google the last two…Marine Corps legends), Harry Butz, etc.
During the ordeal they would try to tape us for propaganda purposes. Personally, I would keep looking down to the ground or hide behind others so that my face wouldn’t show (in fact, after a couple of months of not seeing me in any of the videos my records I was classified as MIA). Another Marine and I shared the same cell and when they came in with cameras we’d strip down. I heard a rumor that one of the other Marines smeared ketchup on his face and started howling.
They day before they released us, we were taken to a room with a camera and Mary the Terrorist who was going to interview us. We were threatened that if we didn’t say the right things we wouldn’t be released. Some Marines gave only name rank and SSN, others sang (Marine Corps Hymn or God Bless America), others just said nothing.
On the day they let us go, I was being herded towards the airplane by a couple of those monkeys. I pulled my arm out of their grasp and let them know that “We’re number one”…but used the wrong finger.
For our troubles we were isolated, thumped, went through two mock executions, starved, threatened, and had to put up with useful idiots from Amnesty International showing up just to let the world know how humane we were being treated.
We resisted at each opportunity, except for Army Sgt Joe Subic who collaborated from day 1 and was later snubbed by the rest of us (and was the only one not to receive a citation). We refused to cooperate, stole keys, plugged toilets, pissed in their rations, blew circuit breakers, laughed in their face when they threatened us and cursed them when they beat us. Steve Kirtley even told one of them to pull his finger! The monkey did and Steve was beaten for the inevitable result.
We did this because we were first and foremost, MARINES! Our honor and loyalty to the United States gave us the courage. We would rather die (and that was a definite possibility) than to shame ourselves, our Corps, or our Country. We had to live up to our history and got to measure ourselves and our actions against those of greater men.
Yes, we broke now and then. But would immediately pick ourselves back up and go back to fighting. Which, by the way, confused the hell out of the monkeys!
Pity the poor Brits. All they had was the history of the E.U. and the U.N. as examples.
Semper Fi
UPDATE:
Former Hostage adds some background:
Originally this was nothing more than a blog comment, but then FrankJ stroked my…ego…and asked if he could post it. Well, we all crave attention (right Rupta?) and other than that embarrassing profile at classmates.com I’d never been “published” before so I said OK. There’s a couple of things I wish I had put in or made clearer. (FYI WAL, I use “monkeys” because the other terms we used wouldn’t make it through the naughty word filter…and monkeys are creepy)
First off, thanks for the comments and don’t feed the troll.
Second, none of us thought that we had done anything special. That’s the one thing non-military types have some trouble understanding. Personally, I was (am?) very uncomfortable with the “hero” tag that the press put on us. We did what we had to do, what we were trained to do. It was just something that Marines do.
Third, when the fecal matter hits the oscillating cooling device, you fall back to training.
The Marines have the longest boot camp of US forces, 13 weeks for enlisted. Officers have OCS, which in the Corps is the equivalent of boot camp, and lasts from 12 to 13 weeks depending on what program you commissioned on (glutton for punishment that I am, I earned a commission so endured both Boot Camp and, 10 years later, OCS and I can say from experience that even without the extra 10 years OCS was harder). After that, officers get to spend another 14 weeks at The Basic School (TBS) in Quantico where they get a taste of combined combat arms and do everything from assaulting a beach in AAAVs (sucked) to blowing up stuff with C4 (didn’t suck). The Marines also still do not have co-ed training until advanced schools. It’s not that women are better or worse, just different in size and strength. HOWEVER, their training matches a male’s step for ever lovin’ godmyfeetarekillingmewhenisthisgonnaend step.
There’s no way to completely match the stress of combat…but the DIs come realllllly close. In the late 70’s there was a great hue and cry from some people coughdemocratscough about the barbarity of Marine boot camp. But it is this stress that prepared us for the confinement. If I could put up with 13 weeks of Drill Instructor SSgt Laird in my face, then nothing short of bullets flying would rattle me.
The training is also not all physical. In fact, you’d be surprised at how much time is spent in the classroom learning everything from basic hygiene and first aid, to squad tactics, to the nomenclature of T/O weapons (I can still field strip an M16 and damned if I can’t put most in the 10 ring with a 9mm), to History and Traditions.
Finally, History and Traditions. This is one advantage every Marine has. As an average American (pre-pc) we were raised on black and white war movies (“Sarge! You! Scared?” “Sure kid, a man’d have to be crazy not to be scared”) and legends: Crossing the Delaware, Gettysburg, the Alamo, the Battle of the Bulge. On top of this Marines have our own history: the Halls of Montezuma, shores of Tripoli, Bella Woods, Tarawa, Iwo Jima, Khe Sahn (and more recently Fahluja).
We didn’t feel that we did anything special…because we hadn’t. We had acted like we were trained to act, as we were expected to act, as those who went before us had acted.
The Marines always celebrate the Marine Corps birthday (November 10th) no matter where they are. One of the traditions is the cutting of the cake with a sword. The first piece is presented to the oldest Marine present (active or retired) who then presents it to the youngest Marine present to symbolize the passing of knowledge and traditions from one generation to the next. I always thought this was way cool. It bonds us in ways that are hard to explain. A few weeks ago our financial advisor asked us out to dinner, something she does with all new clients. My wife and I said yes but were a little uncomfortable because we really didn’t know her personally and would be meeting her husband for the first time. Turns out he was a former jarhead and by the end of the night we were all jokin’ and smokin’ as if we’d grown up together.
It’s just something Marines do.
I know i posted this earlier, but i am an arrogant, egotistical American and wanted to see it again.
First off to Former Hostage, thank u for being a US Marine and for your admirable behavior during the iranian thuggery. Secondly, the british soldiers broke too quickly, but we do not know what they r taught in these situations, they may have given the Hawaiian good luck sign we don’t know, I personally would be ashamed to have given in w/out black eyes, broken nose and limbs in casts. Thirdly, the rules of engagement are what screwed these limeys. Their destroyer had to get permission to fire on the iranian monkeys!! WTF?
Our own soldiers live with this every day as well.
PC bullshit. I know Fmr. Host. would agree, tht if the USMC hands weren’t tied by some bureaucratic bullshit, our job in iraq would have been done in months, not years.
This is why people dislike America – they cannot live up to our standards we have for ourselves(or used to if you look at our current crop of politicians)and they feel bad about themselves and want to bring us down to their level. Go US military!!!!!
Wow. Thanks for posting this, Frank and FormerHostage.
Formerhostage, I always wondered what the significance of your name was. But figured it might be something too personal to share.
Thanks for sharing it. You did the Marines proud.
Sgt Subic in jail.
The above is a link for a story about former Sgt Subic, and not all that flattering… go figure, scum bag…
To Formerhostage: I recently educated myself more about the ’79-81′ hostage-taking and was grateful to have done so. Other than the afore-mentioned failure, you all were shining examples of courage and honor. Thank you.
This recent debacle falls squarely on the shoulders of the C.O.’s of these Brit servicemen. Bad training resulted in Iran being emboldened.
Thank you for your heroic making up of this pathetic story, FormerHostage. At least make it somewhat believable next time, save us all the trouble. KTHXBAI.
Sanjayrupta,
think what you want dude. If you doubt that I am who I say I am, there’s not much I can do to change your mind except maybe to say that I graduated from MSG in Quantico in October 1979. At that time we were in the old White Elephant barracks near where the new Marine Corps Library was later built. This was before they completed the new MSG Bn building near the chow hall. Our T/O weapons were Remmington shotguns with folding stocks and .38 Cal pistols. If you don’t understand what I’m saying, its probably because only a Marine who was on Quantico at that time would.
As for the story, read “Guests of the Ayatolla” or if you can get your hands on “444 Days” and you will find the episodes I described. Oh wait, in order for you to read them you’d have to pull your head out of your @ss. That might be a bit tramatic for you since I know how much drive-by twits need to feel warm and safe.
I find it amusing that you’d find my recount unbelievable especially since all of us Marines never thought we did anything above and beyond what was expected of us. What we took as more or less commonplace with our situation you find unbelievable. It just goes to show how feminized some in society have become. I suppose that deep down you realize that you’d never be able to handle what we did so, naturally, you make yourself feel better by sticking your fingers in your ears, closing your eyes, and saying “never happened, never happened” over and over.
Frank, get in touch with me and I’ll send you a copy of my citations for both my Department of State Medal of Valor and my POW medals so that you can verify to SayinImRuptured that I was there.
On second thought, nevermind. The best revenge we used to get on the monkeys was to ignore them. This wiener deserves no better.
What “trouble”? and who are you calling “us” Sanjayrupta? Go read a history book doofus. Anyone ought to know these actions are perfectly within normal US Marine behaviour patterns. Go corps!
Formerhostage, men like you make me proud to be an American. And although I was never a Marine, your story makes me proud to have worn a US on my collar, and an eagle on my hat.
Helluva story there! I only wish I could stand up to them like you did. Thank you for your service!
You’re genuinely A Real American Hero(TM), FormerHostage. If I ever join the forces and get captured, I’ll do everything I can to live up to your example. I’m just wondering, why even sign the “confession/denunciation” at all, even using a fake name?
Re: “We resisted at each opportunity, except for Army Sgt Joe Subic who collaborated from day 1 and was later snubbed by the rest of us (and was the only one not to receive a citation). ”
I’m ashamed that this puke was part of my Army. Too bad he wasn’t Courts Martialed for collaboration.
SFC Cheryl McElroy US ARMY (RET)
Duty, Honor, Country
Sanjayrupta is less than what falls off the south end of a north bound camel. Semper Fi FormerHostage, RR (USMC 1978-2000)
Semper Fi, brother. Thanks for keeping up the faith, and I hope if I’m ever in that situation I can emulate your bravery and gumption.
-Mike the Marine
cruz8r451 “Their destroyer had to get permission to fire on the iranian monkeys!! WTF?”
Get your facts streight – such was not the case – the Cornwall was 5.5NM from the point of engagement and had no weapons systems that could have been brought to bear without putting their own personel in direct line of fire.
The Cornwall was 5.5NM away because the water was too shallow for her to move closer.
Words cannot possible convey the deepest respect and admiration I hold for your loyalty and bravery. It is indeed an honor to call you a fellow American. Thank you.
Experiences like this make me so proud and thankful that there are men out there willing to do what’s necessary to keep us free. Thank you for all you endured. Thank you for the correct and proper middle finger up their nose attitude, the well deserved mockery and sheer courage to face the enemy.
Thank you for your brave conduct. I only hope I would do the same if I were in your situation. Go Marines. Hooo uhhh!
Except Ssbn04 that the British sailors and marines were in 50m of water and the HMS Cornwall only drew 6.4 meters. She would have been more than safe being in the same exact place her snatched crew was.
http://www.redstate.com/stories/war/the_explanation_is_no_longer_operative
Sometimes it is a privilege to read of somone who has done ones duty with courage. In this case, it’s an honor to read the words by that someone.
FormerHostage,
Thank you for providing me an example – There have been many in the history of American arms. Now I have another one to keep in mind.
The odds of my ever having to live up to such heroism is unlikely – I’m 42 and heading towards the Aviation branch as a mechanic (15U), but you never know, these days.
Thank you for your service, and for your example – if the worst ever happens, your story is the sort of thing that can make it easier to get through the experience with honor intact.
Orion – AKA
Spc Jeff Burhans (Future Soldier – ship for BCT in July)
US Army Reserves
Thank you! Glad you got back. Nothing like a little #1 to tell people what you really think. Our Marines are the best.
As a female having watched the feminist movement from the beginning, all I can say is that I don’t like “pretty” boys – far too many men have gone the weak route – we want you back as guys, guys! US Marines are the best!!!
Semper fi! Love your website – first time here – I’ll be back.
Thank you for setting an example of courage, honor and duty even while under extreme duress. I’m proud to call myself an American.
Former hostage. I am sorry you had to go through what you did. But you and your comrades made the best out of a bad situation.
The Brit hostage drama goes from bad to worse. Here we have Brits dying in Iraq and the MOD is busy with more important matters – it creates a precedent by giving the hostages permission to collect fees for telling what happened to them.
I am sad to say it is Gilbert and Sullivan time.
OHHH RAH Brother………….
May God continue to bless you, and all our brother Marines.
Thank’s for carrying on the tradition.
Semper Fi,
D.Miller/USMC
God bless you, Former Hostage. I remember your time in captivity. We are the home of the free because of you, the brave. Thank God for all our brave military soldiers. How dare anyone say anything against our troops.
I was kidnapped by pirates and they killed all 18 of my children because I wouldn’t divulge the “non-disclosed location” of Mr. Richard Cheney Vice President of USA. And yet I still heroically held on, through waterboarding and standing for an hour and sleep deprivation for three hours and forced homosexual contact with the guards.
I expect just as many fawning posts praising me, thanking me in the most cliched way possible, and with as little thought behind the sentiment as FormerHostage got. You may begin.
sanjayrupture –
I can verify the veracity of truth in the old White Elephant’s bowels – I was there for SNCO school in ’94. Listen to FormerHostage and you will learn wisdom far beyond any academia intellect.
jkn401 – MSG Detachment Commander 2000-2003
And how do you know my story is true? Because I said so, and also because the unit I was with used special top-secret XJ34879-VL Turbanbomber anti-tank missiles. Only I could possibly know that.
Sanjayrupta,
I know your story is false because as everyone well knows, the XJ34879-VL Turbanbomber anti-tank missile was decommissioned in the 70s and replaced with the FU-CamelJockey Interceptor anti-tank missile.
Since you reference Dick Cheney as the VP at the time, you blow your cover on your claim. It was a nice try though.
FormerHostage, all I can do is thank you, because it is due to people like yourself that my 3-yr old son and 1 yr old daughter sleep safely in their beds tonight. God Bless.
FormerHostage, I’d like to add a note of thanks for your service and courage.
Sanjayrupta, just for the sake of the argument, assume FormerHostage is a 10 year old kid posting on the internet.
Since what the hostages went through is well documented and a number of them have written about it, would you like to point out which parts of the description are false? If he’s lying about any of it, it ought to be pretty easy to show.
[P.S. admit it-it’s the “monkeys” thing that gets you.
Not politically correct, but under the circumstance he’s free to call them whatever he wants. If you have problems with any other parts of the story, uh, tough titties-complain to the Iranians about it.]
Former Hostage,
You sir are a hero. We were privileged to have had someone of your caliber serving the US and are thankful for your patriotism and courage. You are the “finest kind.”
Maj.Gen. Pravati, please crawl back under the rock you call home. Why one asks does someone have to make such a nuisance of themselves? Go back to the Kos Kids site where you will be more comfortable and we’ll be spare your insipid, whining, ignorant comments.
As this is Easter Sunday one should not stoop to Troll tease, but it is almost too great a temptation. It is also not cricket to engage in a battle of wits with someone so obviously deficient in weaponry. That said “May a thousand fleas infest your armpit” or “May your 72 virgins have crabs, scabies and bad breath” Hoping you’ll get what you so richly deserve. Karma you know.
Thank you for your service, Former Hostage. Welcome home. Oh, and Sanjayrupta? FOAD, MF.
My apologies for stooping to picking on Sanjayrupta. He just has a complex cuz he’s never managed to score with a real man.
Wank!!!
Originally this was nothing more than a blog comment, but then FrankJ stroked my…ego…and asked if he could post it. Well, we all crave attention (right Rupta?) and other than that embarassing profile at classmates.com I’d never been “published” before so I said OK. There’s a couple of things I wish I had put in or made clearer. (FYI WAL, I use “monkeys” because the other terms we used wouldn’t make it through the naughty word filter…and monkeys are creepy)
First off, thanks for the comments and don’t feed the troll.
Second, none of us thought that we had done anything special. That’s the one thing non-military types have some trouble understanding. Personally, I was (am?) very uncomfortable with the “hero” tag that the press put on us. We did what we had to do, what we were trained to do. It was just something that Marines do.
Third, when the fecal matter hits the oscillating cooling device, you fall back to training.
The Marines have the longest boot camp of US forces, 13 weeks for enlisted. Officers have OCS, which in the Corps is the equivalent of boot camp, and lasts from 12 to 13 weeks depending on what program you commissioned on (glutton for punishment that I am, I earned a commission so endured both Boot Camp and, 10 years later, OCS and I can say from experience that even without the extra 10 years OCS was harder). After that, officers get to spend another 14 weeks at The Basic School (TBS) in Quantico where they get a taste of combined combat arms and do everything from assaulting a beach in AAAVs (sucked) to blowing up stuff with C4 (didn’t suck). The Marines also still do not have co-ed training until advanced schools. It’s not that women are better or worse, just different in size and strength. HOWEVER, their training matches a male’s step for ever lovin’ godmyfeetarekillingmewhenisthisgonnaend step.
There’s no way to completely match the stress of combat…but the DIs come realllllly close. In the late 70’s there was a great hue and cry from some people coughdemocratscough about the barbarity of Marine boot camp. But it is this stress that prepared us for the confinement. If I could put up with 13 weeks of Drill Instructor SSgt Laird in my face, then nothing short of bullets flying would rattle me.
The training is also not all physical. In fact, you’d be surprised at how much time is spent in the classroom learning everything from basic hygiene and first aid, to squad tactics, to the nomenclature of T/O weapons (I can still field strip an M16 and damned if I can’t put most in the 10 ring with a 9mm), to History and Traditions.
Finally, History and Traditions. This is one advantage every Marine has. As an average American (pre-pc) we were raised on black and white war movies (“Sarge! You! Scared?” “Sure kid, a man’d have to be crazy not to be scared”) and legends: Crossing the Delaware, Gettysburg, the Alamo, the Battle of the Bulge. On top of this Marines have our own history: the Halls of Montezuma, shores of Tripoli, Bella Woods, Tarawa, Iwo Jima, Khe Sahn (and more recently Fahluja).
We didn’t feel that we did anything special…because we hadn’t. We had acted like we were trained to act, as we were expected to act, as those who went before us had acted.
The Marines always celebrate the Marine Corps birthday (November 10th) no matter where they are. One of the traditions is the cutting of the cake with a sword. The first piece is presented to the oldest Marine present (active or retired) who then presents it to the youngest Marine present to symbolize the passing of knowledge and traditions from one generation to the next. I always thought this was way cool. It bonds us in ways that are hard to explain. A few weeks ago our financial advisor asked us out to dinner, something she does with all new clients. My wife and I said yes but were a little uncomfortable because we really didn’t know her personally and would be meeting her husband for the first time. Turns out he was a former jarhead and by the end of the night we were all jokin’ and smokin’ as if we’d grown up together.
It’s just something Marines do.
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/927831/posts
Fascinating thread on Subic the Perfidious over at Free Republic. It started a few years ago, and is quite an interesting read from the beginning.
But, then go to the post at the bottom of the page on February 28th of this year, 2007.
Once a sleaze, always a sleaze.
Tun Tavern, New Providence, Chapultepec, Peking, Belleau Woods, Haiti, Iwo Jima, Beirut, Hue, Chosin Resevoir, Tehren 1979… You guys added a new chapter to the book and you showed Iran who Marines are. Folks need to reminded what it means to be an American, and who the good guys are. Ooorah!
PS – Sanjayrupta Pravati is reading Jihad for Dummies His parents made him a poster boy for a prophylactic company when he was born, scarred the little monkey for life!
Yeah, I know…
Sir, the private was instructed in the history of the Marine Corps and the private forgot that Chosin Resevoir was before Hue, Sir! (time to go find a Frog that needs a push start) Still, you MSG guys did real good.
I was one of the Marines off the coast for the Rescue Mission. I never got to leave the boat, I’d be lying to say I didn’t want to kill every man, woman, and child in Iran back then. With the politics the way they are now, there is no doubt that Jimmy Carter was a total failure of a President to not have declared war then.
You guys see that Joe Subic got busted for insurance fraud??
link
FormerHostage,
Thanks for sharing your story, and thanks to IMAO for hosting you here. I actually have the book Guests of the Ayatollah at home (borrowed from the library), so I am reading it as my kids allow me the time to do so.
We continue to hope and pray that the Iranian people are liberated from the barbarians who rule them at the point of a gun. From the book, it was interesting to read how so many were lining up for U.S. visas to get out of the place in advance of the mullahs taking over.
FormerHostage – it’s because of guys like you that I have more respect for the Marines than any other service (and I’m retired Air Force).
No one here seems to have brought up a recent hostage taking of US military that completely embarassed the US. Remember that little incident where the Chinese struck and disabled an EP-3 in international airspace? And then how they forced it to land in Chinese territory, thereby providing the Chinese with an intelligence bonanza worth untold amounts. The crew’s performance left a lot to be desired…
FormerHostage, I’d like to send you some ammo.
let me know what kind and where to send it.
HKpistole at Yahoo.com
Actually, I don’t think there was much to worry about with that incident in China. After all, they probably already bought all that stuff from Clinton.
Former Hostage,
Things you have written over the years made it apparent when and where you came by the monicker. I am glad you decided to come clean. Accept the thanks of an Old Squid, who was in his own second hitch at the time.
shortjockrupture,
I’m curious about what you wrote. How did you force the guards to give you homosexual contact? We are all aware of your proclivities, but we thought the guards were straight.
FormerHostage,
I’ve often seen your user name and was always curious about its context. Thanks for telling your story. Inter-service rivalry aside, this former Soldier sends you a huge Semper Fi.
Semper Fi, FormerHostage! Thanks for sharing that bit with us and I’m glad you made it home safe.
I was only about ten when the Iranians took you guys hostage. It still makes me angry to this day.
TinSoldier
Sgt., USMC 1988-1994
SSG, Army National Guard 2001-2005
FormerHostage,
I never served in the military, but I have always had the utmost respect and appreciation for everybody who serves and who has ever served in our armed forces.
I see you don’t like to be thought of as a hero, but I’m afraid that’s a tag your going to have to be stuck with. You and the rest of your fellow Marines (sans Subic) did what 99% of us could probably never do. Resisting the enemy in the worst possible circumstances. God Bless each and every one of you!
Former Hostage,
Thanks for what you did and for remaining true to your beliefs. I’m retired AF and always have had great respect for the Marines. Whenever I hear dialogue about the military I’m reminded of this quote “People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf.” George Orwell. Some people just don’t understand that and never will.
God Bless you and the United States of America
I was linked to your site from national review. Your story has inspired me enough to run out and purchase the book, “Guests of the Ayatollah” I was a young child in 1979 but remember seeing the daily day count on the nightly news. I have a question if any former hostage cares to answer. What were your views of President Carter both during and after the crisis? I saw a documentary where one former hostage was quoted as saying that President Carter met in private with the hostages after the release. This former hostage said he had refused to shake Carter’s hand before the meeting but hugged him after the meeting. I found this to be highly suspect but of course would never doubt it had happened if the former hostage said it did. It’s just difficult for me to understand such a transformation. What could Carter possibly have said? God Bless you for your sacrifice
>
It probably wasn’t a hug.. more like a body to body Suplex…that the Secret Service would have had to interfere with.
He could have said, “I am sorry.. I am going to go out on my boat.. and meet my rabbit..err fate..err Bun-bun.”
Every day I thank God for the US Marines, at least once.
Great story. Thanks for sharing it. There’s a whole new generation of jarheads in Iraq cut from the same cloth!
FormerHostage…
I was 16 at the time. I remember being very angry and I had little red heart foil stickers that I put on my calendar every day to remember all of you. I once thought that the Hallmark store where I bought my stickers was going to run out- so I spent two weeks worth of babysitting money to stock up…I still have one unopened package. I was so happy when it was over, but I wondered would you all be able to get back to life after that…Thank God, the Marines made you tough and you are doing okay! From a Hoo-ah to a Hoo-rah…Semper fi! (and I,too would rather die than give up more than than my name,rank and ssn.
Since we are talking about exteme cases of captivity, have we forgotten about Jessica Lynch and the slack over all that event and people’s sentiment etc?? Fair is fair in the love of War. If anyone wnats to read insight of captivity and military occupational hazard.. read Bravo 2-0.
FormerHostage,
Thank you for your service and your honor when the time of challenge was at hand. Thankfully, when I was a soldier I never faced a challenge like yours or the 15 Brits. I do know that I asked myself frequently if I would be a true soldier in such a situation or find myself a coward. You never get to know unless you are tested by fire.
I don’t know what the training is for the Brits, or the orders they were under. I do know that their command let them down and then their country and allies let them down. The most irritating thing about this incident was the smiles and glad-handing from captured to captors.
God save us from those that can not take a stand and those that force us to take that stand.
Dave
You are an honor to Corps, God, and Country.
I was not in the military but I salute you and your service.
Thank you for giving me and my family our freedom.
FormerHostage – don’t take this wrong, but you need to change your screen-name. I mean, they may have had your body in captivity, but it sounds to me like you OWNED those SOBs.
Gunga said:
but it sounds to me like you OWNED those SOBs.
That’s pwn3d as we hepcats like to say.
Former –
there isn’t much in the way of gratitude or eloquence that i could add to what has already been placed in the record here. But your description of how you guys fought back against the monkeys was priceless and unforgettable.
thanks for your service to this country,
and for sharing your story.
It needs to be heard.
Semper Fi. Carry On.
FormerHostage,
I was aboard the USS Okinawa with the ARG parked just South of Chabahar during the last few months of your captivity. Needless to say, every one of us out there that was thinking about you all the time. I’ve always hoped we had at least a little to do with getting you back home. I was never a Marine, but at least I’m honored to have driven you guys to work.
Great post. The part about training emphasizes that it’s not the men but the culture that’s at fault here. And that goes even more so when you recognize this distinction: The Iranians knew that if they killed the Americans, we’d invade their then-weak country and lay waste to it, Vietnam or no Vietnam, Carter or no Carter. And the Iranians now know that if they’d killed the British, they have to go through some diplomatic unpleasantries for killing foreigners without plausible deniability. When you know you’re backed up by the full force of a great nation, you tend to be more likely to back that nation through your actions.
My memory of the event was I was scared. Barely in for a year, I was stationed on Okinawa, Japan and it was very likely we would be deployed to the region shortly.
Years later my brother shared with me his own tale of how they trained for a combat drop (500 feet) from a Boeing 707. – The rear boarding passage of a 707 lies UNDER the tail of the jet. He explained a fiberglass slide was fashioned over the stairs and they practiced jumping out the back.
In training, the hatch would be opened, but the wind pressure of traveling at ~200 mph caused the door to shut as each SEAL jumped, and it made for a very dangerous exercise, but train they did.
To rescue the hostages, (that is, eliminate their tormentors,) they were to be disguised as a civilian, commercial flight that went, “ahem” off-course when the time came. . . followed (hopefully) with a hasty extraction.
I am ever thankful President Reagan scared the Hell out of those Iranian “students” enough to release the hostages shortly after he took office. Keeping my brother and I out of harm’s way.
Say a prayer tonight for the Army Delta Force team that died, when their helicopters collided in the desert, in preparation to do just that.
Semper fi,
Rick
Wow, 67 people duped. Not bad Mr. FormerHostage.
But I fail to see why you would want to portray yourself in such a negative light (claiming you did not do what the Iranians told you to). Did you not understand that they may cause you physical harm by not complying? Is it not a little stupid to do something like that? Just do what they tell you and everything will be fine! It’s not like you were handing over the nuclear bomb codes, all you had to do is smile and be friendly and helpful to them and everything you wanted could be given to you!
These British soldiers seem to be more sensible (shocking, Europeans knowing how to act better than Yankees) by maturely accepting that they are captured, and being as helpful as possible to facilitate their own release. As a result, none of them were harmed, none were mistreated, and all are now home safely with their families. As opposed to your own bullheadedness, which made you stay there for well over a year and got your President kicked out of office (letting your Commander down like that doesn’t seem too loyal to me).
But the most humorous part is how many people fawn over types like yourself. Oh, you’re a hero and you’re so brave can I touch your muscle? Just because you were too stubborn to see the reasonable course of action. Are all Americans like this? Do they all unthinkingly praise that which they should be embarassed by? Of course, this is a neocon website, and so the results are skewed. As idiotic as America looks sometimes, one can hardly say that the majority of her citizens would respond as everybody has to you.
So build up your ego while you can Mr. GI Joe. Continue to listen to the unthinking cheers the pro-war buffoons pile on top of your jarhead. Only deep in your heart may you know I am the right one. And you will, oh you will. But stop with the neocon chanting against the English soldiers. They make their nation proud by their actions. Can you say the same of your own actions, when you look deep within your self?
Sanjayrupta you will never understand what this is all about you don’t live your life thinking anything is worth fighting over or dying for. You also can’t understand what selfless sacrifice is.
FH,
Semper Fidelis Devil-Dog!
Oorah!
thebronze
(Former 1/1 and 3/1 Marine)
To Sanjayrupta Pravati,
In the immortal words of John Stuart Mill:
“War is an ugly thing, but not the ugliest of things. The decayed and degraded state of moral and patriotic feeling which thinks that nothing is worth war is much worse. The person who has nothing for which he is willing to fight, nothing which is more important than his own personal safety, is a miserable creature and has
no chance of being free unless made and kept so
by the exertions of better men than himself”
“Sanyay” writes “Just do what they tell you and everything will be fine! It’s not like you were handing over the nuclear bomb codes, all you had to do is smile and be friendly and helpful to them and everything you wanted could be given to you!”
I wasn’t aware the Indians were trained to bend over and take it up the a$$. Thanks for clarifying that.
The only history British Marines have is EU and UN? Are you serious? There were British Royal Marines even before the United States was a country. Furthermore, take a look at the USMC dress uniform and the USMC insignia, a direct copy (rip off) of the British Royal Marines. Emulation is the highest form of compliment. Add to that the fact that the Royal Marines have to do 32 weeks basic training before they can wear a green beret….how long do the amatuers in the USMC have to train for…16 weeks or something ridiculous like that. The Royal Marines are commandos and are considered a “special Forces” regiment due to the varied roles they are trained for in warfare and recon..unlike the USMC who are just an over rated infantry unit with the exeption of USMC Force Recon, the rest of the USMC are just ordinary “Marines”. Not “special Forces” and definately NOT “Commandos”. Royal Marines and the British Paratroop Regiment are trained extensively not only for infantry duties, but also for commando, reconaissence and counter terrorism duties.
I have respect for the guys of Recon that I have served next to, they were what I would call professional marines, taught to think for themselves in the field. The regular USMC Marines however gave me the impression of gung ho amateurs that cant think for themselves in a combat situation…if they lost a leader or an officer they would be ******.
Before anyone counters my comment….take a look at your US Rangers…….initiated and based on British Special Forces proceedures from the get go.
As for comments about the captured Royal Marines breaking under interrogation from the Iranians? Wheres the proof of that? Because they were smiling and joking around when they were freed? It is British Forces policy to give only name Rank and serial number when captured and just like the USMC and US Army the British Marines were probably under strict orders not to open fire or to antagonise their captors….like doing something stupid like giving them the finger as you are about to leave…thats the sort of stupid stunt that gets you or a commrade killed.
So….to sum up…..before bad mouthing and spreading untruths about an older, more experienced, more professional Marine Corp Regiment maybe you should have remembered a few weeks back when Royal Marines strapped themselves to the sides of an Apache and went BACK INTO a fire fight to retrieve the body of a dead comrade in Afghanistan. I have yet to hear of any of the USMC doing a similar suicidal act of bravery since the “war on terror” began.
I am not saying that the USMC is not a useless outfit..they are good at what they do….but they are NOT Commando’s or Special Forces….Royal Marines ARE!!!!
Seems this country is entering a future of no offense, we try not to offend the enemy or harm them. Too many times our soldiers are brought up on charges for doing their duty, if the enemy don’t like it, call foul and put our soldiers on trial. Gone are the days of hit ’em fast and hard, allowing troops to do as trained, work more as a police force with the media at the wheel. You go as popularity directs, popularity controlled by the medias twist of truth and facts, seems our military isn’t qualified to dictate it’s next move and if they are effective.
Your actions were truly Marine, you’ve done your job of keeping the Corp alive, hope to never see it watered down.
Semper Fidelis
HOORAH!!
“So build up your ego while you can Mr. GI Joe. Continue to listen to the unthinking cheers the pro-war buffoons….”
I’ve figured out who Sanjay is:
Hans: Just another American who saw too many movies as a child? Another orphan of a bankrupt culture who thinks he’s John Wayne, Rambo, Marshall Dillon?
John: I was always kind of partial to Roy Rogers, actually. I really liked those sequined shirts.
Hans: Do you really think you have a chance against us, Mr. Cowboy?
John: Yippee-kay-yea, motherf***er.
The monkey thing really got to you didn’t it?
All I can say is:
God Bless the United States Marine Corps
I can’t tell you how proud I am to have my son, Matt the Marine, in the same organization as FormerHostage. My he live up to your great example, sir.
“The regular USMC Marines however gave me the impression of gung ho amateurs that cant think for themselves in a combat situation…if they lost a leader or an officer they would be ******.”
Just goes to show how little you know.
Command resposibility is down to the Corporal level in the Corps.
So, no, they wouldn’t be ******.