After the 2008 election, some people who supported Barack Obama told me they were shocked — SHOCKED! — when he actually did some of the things he said he’d do in the campaign.
When I challenged them with, “Didn’t he say he’d do that?” the usual response was, “Well, I didn’t think he would.”
I don’t want to be that guy. But, I’m thinking I may turn out to be that guy.
I’m supporting Herman Cain. The parallel with Barack Obama should be obvious.
No, not the black thing. Cain grew up black, Obama was raised by a bunch of crazy white folk. If elected, Cain would be America’s first black president.
No, what I’m talking about is: 9-9-9.
I like a lot of things about Herman Cain, but I don’t like the 9-9-9 plan.
On the face of it, that seems odd, since that’s all you hear about Cain.
The two biggest things I like about Cain are:
- He’s a successful businessman, and we need someone in the White House that understands business. Without that, the economy will, well, do what it’s doing today.
- He’s a conservative. That means that, when situations arise, I’ll more than likely be satisfied with how he handles it.
Those two items are the most important thing about Cain. When compared to the other candidates, he’s strongest on these two qualifications. And that’s enough for me.
But, what I don’t like is the 9-9-9 plan. Or the 9 part. No, that 9. The other one. No, that that one. The other one. Yes, that one. The national sales tax.
Here’s the plan:
- Business Flat Tax – 9%
- Gross income less all investments, all purchases from other businesses and all dividends paid to shareholders.
- Empowerment Zones will offer additional deductions for payroll employed in the zone.
- Individual Flat Tax – 9%.
- Gross income less charitable deductions.
- Empowerment Zones will offer additional deductions for those living and/or working in the zone.
- National Sales Tax – 9%.
- This gets the Fair Tax off the sidelines and into the game.
Flat tax rates for business and individuals is a good thing. If you make twice the money, you pay twice the taxes. It’s that national sales tax that I don’t like.
Opening up one more way for the government to get our money? That’s a no-go. You start a new tax, you’ll never get rid of it. It took over 100 years for the government to stop billing you for the Spanish-American War.
The saving grace is, a national sales tax may be unconstitutional. If there will be a tax on everything sold, what about land? If you sell property, does the national sales tax apply? If so, it could run into the same problems brought up in Pollock v. Farmers’ Loan & Trust Co., which ruled that income tax was unconstitutional, and was the impetus for the 16 Amendment to the Constitution. A national sales tax may require another amendment. And I don’t want another amendment; every time somebody touches the Constitution, they screw things up. Well, not every time, but in the last 100 years. We don’t need another 18th Amendment fiasco, for instance.
The thing most people know about Herman Cain, 9-9-9 plan, is just about the only thing I don’t like about his platform. I do want tax reform; I just don’t like the national sales tax portion of that plan.
I still support Cain for president. I hope he wins. But, when it comes time to implement 9-9-9, I hope he fails.
I heard Mike Church say the 9% National Sales Tax is not Constitutional. Why does his wife say she will not campaign? What is this woman hiding? he is not experienced in politics…I am sick of the media telling me Perry is done. I agree with Cain, Paul & Perry 80% Romney 60%…and that is ok…. I am against anyone who everyone agrees with 100% that means they say anything to get elected. My mom always said NEVER TRUST ANYONE EVERYONE LIKES.
“We don’t need another 18th Amendment fiasco, for instance.”
Not too many guys are brave enough to take a stand against women’s suffrage, but I’m with you.
Any radical change sends Republicans scurrying like rats on a sinking ship anyway. Think GW’s Social Security reform.
Honestly, I think 9-9-9 is less an actual program, but a conversation starter on overall tax reform.
Besides, the FairTax reference points to something a bit more complicated than simply adding 9% to EVERYTHING. If nothing else, it prompts one to go out and get info on what exactly the FairTax is.
I’m with you on not wanting a new tax when the old one is still around though.
It’s fine if you don’t like a sales tax, and you are technically correct that it starts a “new” tax. But the plan gets rid of 1) the capital gains tax, 2) the payroll tax, and 3) the death tax.
Let’s all do the math together: 1-3 = -2
That’s right, the 9-9-9 plan is a net of 2 fewer taxes. That’s 2 fewer “revenue streams.” The “it adds a revenue stream” argument is intellectually bankrupt. Go there at your own peril.
Also, those who argue that 9-9-9 will become 30-30-30 are ignoring the other taxes: capital gains top rate is 40%, the payroll tax is about 15%, and the death tax top rate is 35%. There’s nothing to keep those taxes (or the income tax brackets) from being changed either. In other words, the “they’ll raise the rates” argument is unpersuasive, as it’s no different from the status quo. It’s not a logical argument for keeping the status quo over the 9-9-9, so it’s pure demagoguery. It’s disappointing to see conservatives go this route.
I’m much more persuaded by “it will never pass, and so he’ll look stupid when he can’t get it done” and “when people see that it raises effective tax rates on lower incomes and drastically lowers for higher incomes, they’ll freak and not vote for him, and then we’ll be stuck with Obama for 4 more years.” Stick to those arguments, and you won’t sound like a democrat.
“My mom always said NEVER TRUST ANYONE EVERYONE LIKES.”
But we all like you. I’m conflicted now.
Gabe,
I agree. I think what Cain has done is effectively tie the three ideas together. So, when folks discuss his plan, they must address all three points. Now, I’m really wary of giving DC new things to tax, but from a marketing perspective, Cain has already shifted the tax argument to a GOP friendly area. In the same way, decades ago, Reagan shifted the tax argument to supply side/Laffer curve and permanently transfigured the tax debate in this nation.
Cain has started a similar type of shift. I don’t know if it will be as transformational, but if the future tax arguments continue to tie in 1) simplicity, 2) personal and business taxes in same breath, and 3) some other third thing – then the GOP shifts the tax debate even further rightward.
Would folks back the 9-9-9 plan if it was a constitutional amendment that tied the three together (raise one, raise all) and forbid the government from any new taxation?
The trouble with a national sales tax or VAT is that it gives “progressives” a serious opening to attack; as % of income, sales taxes hit the poor much harder than the rich (because despite the yacht-buying and country club memberships and fox hunting excursions and any other stereotypes we can throw into the mix, the rich invest a higher % of their income than the poor and thus wind up shielding more of their money from sales taxes than the poor). Thus it would bring out the “class warfare” hounds in full force.
I have to agree; U.S. consumer spending is the engine of the economy, and anything that puts a drag on that spending could slow down the whole train. Adding almost 10% to the price of everything sounds painful. Even New York State’s stoopid sales tax doesn’t go to 9%. Plus, as we know, making new taxes to lower old taxes only leaves us with new and old taxes. President Cain would restrain the income tax and the corporate tax as the sales tax is implemented; but his successor, President Hillary, will just jack ’em all sky high.
Capitalist_B You left out luxury jets. the rich always buys luxury jets.
I like the Fair Tax. What I make and where it goes is nobody’s business.
Except taxes on consumption was pretty much what the US gov lived on before 1913. So I bet it’s pretty constitutional.
I wholy agree with Basil in not liking the 9-9-9 plan. The national sales tax/VAT thing is the part that really gets me. Besides being possibly unconstitutional, I see a lot of problems with it and think it could really hinder economic growth.
If Cain’s the nominee I’ll gladly vote for him, but I really don’t want to see that 9-9-9 plan come to fruition. I still think Perry would be the best conservative president of all who are running this cycle; his energy plan announced today sounds exactly like what we need to get the country on the right track.
Not to mention that some of us already pay 9% in state and local sales taxes. Jumping to 18% by adding a national sales tax will not make us happy campers.
The nice thing about a 9% sales tax, as long as it’s handled like a real sales tax, is that it’s a bit different from a VAT. A VAT hides real nicely, so people don’t notice when it gets increased. If you are at the checkout, and you get a total price of your goods, and a tacked-on 9%, you’ll notice it…so if it gets raised to 30%, you’ll SCREAMINGLY notice it. My bigger complaint is the 9% corporate tax…cause all the income at the corporation distributed out to the stockholders will presumably be taxed at 9% as personal income? So we’ve still got a little double-taxation issue there. That being said, the whole package is certainly better than we have now!
Adding a 9% national sales tax will sandbag an already sluggish economy, and 9% is just the low, low, introductory offer. The only positive side is that it would immediately induct the nearly 50% of Americans who pay no income taxes into a system where they actually have to pay their fair share– which is also why it will never happen.
That’s assuming Cain wins the nomination. If he does, I hope Democrats won’t be all racist, and vote for Obama just because he’s the whiter guy.
The national sales tax is needed to expand the tax base and capture revenue form black market/illegal sources. Criminals pay 0% of income taxes, but they do buy stuff. Someone making $100K legally pays, tens of thousands in income and payroll tax compared to someone making $100K illegally who pays zero in income and payroll taxes. This plan will lower the income/payroll taxes of the legal worker and collect at least some taxes from the criminal. Nearly 50% of income earners pay zero in income taxes, but they also buy a bunch of stuff. The sales tax is a way to get revenue from people who are not contributing now. Its not perfect, the Government will still waste most of the revenue but I think this is the concept behind the sales tax.
Have an Evil day
Well said. The NST is a non-starter for me also. Crabby etal nailed the issue of adding a national sales tax on top of state sales taxes – just not practical. And, indeed, why give government another ‘pipeline’ and means of control? Boortz (I like him anyway) often flogs the idea of the ‘fair’ tax as he calls it. I wonder if people know that it is predicated on a prebate, essentialy a welfare payment, based on income to make it ‘fair’.
From the FairTAx.org website: “the FairTax (HR25) provides a monthly, universal prebate to ensure that each family unit can consume tax-free at or beyond the poverty level”. Imagine the mechanism for THAT idiocy.
The idea of taxing each dollar of income equally, without deductions, appeals to me.
The rich would have no advantage over anyone else and corporations would not be able to game the tax system (at least) for benefits. Removing the social engineering from the tax code is something that is long overdue IMHO.
Add a ban on corporate and union political contributions and it would be a good start on eliminating corruption.
How about a $10,000 per head annual National Occupancy Tax?
Payable every year on your birthday, that’d raise about 3 trillion each year for the Federal govmnt to play with.
N.O.T.!