Did you know we signed this thing called the Outer Space Treaty? Here’s what Wikipedia says about a part of it:
The Outer Space Treaty represents the basic legal framework of international space law. Among its principles, it bars States Parties to the Treaty from placing nuclear weapons or any other weapons of mass destruction in orbit of Earth, installing them on the Moon or any other celestial body, or to otherwise station them in outer space. It exclusively limits the use of the Moon and other celestial bodies to peaceful purposes and expressly prohibits their use for testing weapons of any kind, conducting military maneuvers, or establishing military bases, installations, and fortifications (Art.IV). However, the Treaty does not prohibit the placement of conventional weapons in orbit.
Basically, this has been ratified by everyone except a few countries whose space programs consist of a fifty dollar telescope.
So no nuclear weapons on the moon. We can use conventional weapons, which I guess means we can hit the moon with a sword. Not very impressive.
Here’s the thing, though: What if we need to declare war on the moon? The treaties wants us to use the moon for peaceful purposes, but that seems to assume the moon is peaceful. I argue it is not and must be dealt with.
We’re going to have to break this treaty. The only way you can legally break a treaty is to challenge all the countries who signed it to a contest of strength and beat them. The traditional contest is log throwing. We need to practice.
Another reason not to sign them is because in most treaties we are signatory to….there is fine print that states that if there are any monetary expenses involved the American government shall pick up such expenses
If you have nukes in space, that’s a kind of meta-treaty which gives you explicit right of telling the whiny international lawyer types the science is settled.
Relax the primary objective of IMAO is safe. The treaty only prohibits the stationing/storing/basing of nuclear weapons, it says nothing about the use of WMD’s in space or specifically on the moon. The big issue is finding a rocket big enough to get the nuke TO the moon. Of course there is still a Saturn V rocket at KSS on display(Apollo 18), unfortunately no one knows how the damn thing works.
Just say we were aiming at the sun and missed. I mean, who can tell the difference? They’re both big shiny round objects in the sky.
The other funny thing about treaties is that every country but us breaks them, and usually only signs them to get something from the United States…before going back to whatever it was they swore they wouldn’t do as their part of the bargain.
Eric has it right, almost. You should remember Paul Atreides’ use of a nuclear device in Dune; he argued it was for demolition purposes, and therefore not a violation of the Outer Space treaty. Other than that the fact that this treaty was signed as a solution to a problem arising 40 years ago would suggest that in many respects it is just that outdated.
John McCain thinks we can get the Moon to join us.
Well, if the sword is big enough…
John McCain is a double-ended cheese dispenser. Ooops. This is off topic. Insert the word “treaty” somewhere!
somehow I think the environmentalist had something to do with this Outer Space Treaty.
Actually, any space treaty is suspended in a time of war. Or “police action”. So, one pencil whip and the moon gets what it had coming to it.
I agree with you that this is not a good idea. I find it asinine for the most powerful nation on earth to limit itself in such a manner when we know others will ignore or break this whenever they feel like it (or in this case, are technologically able to).
In this case, however, there is a mitigating aspect of it. You really don’t need a nuke from space. One of the big weapon ideas right now is to fire a tungsten rod from space. link
Why bother with a super complex nuclear weapon, put it in outer space, expose it to radiation and chance a problem with it when all we need is to aim a bowling ball and drop it on your head at over a hundred thousand miles an hour.
One of the disadvantages of living at the bottom of a gravity well is that things fall down towards you… and fall faster the farther they drop.
Personally, I would load the damn thing up with drums of bacon fat. How much would that annoy those terrorists? “Hey, did you hear? Our buddy, the bomb maker, was killed yesterday when a pig fell on his head at about a 100,000 miles an hour. He can’t go to heaven because he is now bacon scented crater.”
The dinasaur rocket launching martians I trained on yesterday’s thread will eat their Wheaties and defeat earth’s treaties.
Ok, while it is likely that we will never need to bomb the moon, what’s the point? Why do we need to sign treaties like this? Ok, I can sort of understand disarmament treaties with Russia (assuming it isn’t complete disarmament), and treaties such as NATO, but if it isn’t really in our best interest, why bother with the rest?
Never need to bomb the moon?
What site do you think this is?
Treaties are like street signs. Once they’re up, there’s really nothing you can do.
For example, Vancouver has long had this small street sign at the entrance of the city “Vancouver is a nuclear weapons free zone”
thanks to that sign, we’ve never been nuked.
Hiroshima forgot to put up the sign.
Punching hippies in space is still okay though, right?
Rick, Because CNN will probably never read this blog I went ahead and fact-checked it for them. Amazingly, it’s the truth…
I thought we shouldn’t sign treaties because the constitution says “no entangling alliances.” Our founding fathers knew nefarious idiots would try and use that old trick again.
The traditional contest is log throwing. We need to practice.
Pretty stiff competition from the Canadians on that, eh? They have nothing else to do up there, other than charge politically incorrect mongers with hate crimes.
Sure, we’ve got a pretty huge number of caber-tossin’ Scots-Americans down here who can certainly hold their own against anything the Frozen North presents, but who wants to risk the Moon going all Second City? This is too big a threat to take any chances with. Let’s break with tradition and make it calf throwing and bull roping. that way, we won’t even have to do much…just say “Texas” once or twice and most of the world will preemptively quit the treaty. Then when we’re the only ones in it, we can tear it up and fire away at old Mare Imbrium or whatever other targets suit FrankJ’s mood that day.
Merry Christmas, all.
Barb you gave me a great idea. We could start naming states like Haliburtonville, Christofascismville, Cowboyville, bacon grilled baconville and men with ballsville. That should keep the hippies out. Like bug repellent but for the far-lefties who when they are around people who think different then them embrace their inner nazi and relentless hammer said innocent until they conform to Utopianism.
Treaty? I didn’t sign no stinkin’ Treaty!
Personally, I think we need a Monroe Space Doctrine to protect us from being annexed by the Klingons.
Small point, shiggz, but the Constitution doesn’t mention ‘no entangling alliances’, though our Founding Fathers are rolling over in their graves because of all the damage we’ve done to the freedom they won for us. ‘No entangling alliances’, though attributed to George Washington’s farewell address, was actually said by Thomas Jefferson,( sort of) in his inaugural address. “…entangling alliances with none.’ was the phrase he used.
Interplanetary Treaty supersedes Planetary Outer Space Treaty/International Space Law.
The Martian colonization solves the,”It violates our Outer Space Treaty.” whining
Also, did Ripley worry about some violation of treaty? No!—“I say we take off, and nuke the site from orbit. It’s the only way to be sure.”
Survival is the Mother of Necessity, I always say. ( Or, at least I do in this case.)
In 1945 the Nazi’s escaped to the moon. In 2018 they are coming back. Of course we need to nuke the moon. The huns merely snickered when we crashed a rocket into the moon a few weeks ago in a vain search for water. See it all here ( view the teaser ):
http://www.ironsky.net
Speaking of the Log Tossing, The senate just dropped a big steamy one.
Darn it all!
Since we are banned from putting weapons on any celestial body, my plan to so arm Megan Fox must also be nixed!
Don’t need nukes in space, though it says states not people so get a nuke and bring it up privately.
In the end just a big rock to throw down the gravity well can be better than a nuke.
@livefree Thanks, good to know. So if i understand it right It’s like the separation of Church and state. Not actually in the constitution but was an expressed value in somewhere like an address, federalist papers, or napkins from “Ye Olde Restaurant”.
The hardest nation to defeat will, of course, be the conglomerate that is Great Britain. Of course, they will pick a Scot to throw their log, and we all know how tough the Scottish are.
Any stories written where aliens come and convince the UN (without much effort) to sign away mineral rights to the rest of the solar system?
Ok. No joke. I heard about this on one of those late night A.M. radio station talk shows–you know the ones that are all about “listen to Mr. Smith’s story about how aliens abducted him and temporarily turned him into a cow! Coming next!!” (I don’t traditionally listen to this crap.)
ANYWAY, one late night, as I was driving back from a long road trip, I heard this nut ball guy on the radio talking about a Space Treaty that was necessary because we were having wars on the moon that nobody knows about. He went into some nut parade dissertation about various countries blah blah, I don’t know. I didn’t listen well.
But I never thought that the nut ball Space Treaty was actually a real thing. OMG.
Last night I was driving home from the bar and the moon was following me. I think it is up to something. Also it looked very angry.