So, I wanted to try out my little Kel-Tec I mentioned previously plus see if I had fixed my Colt 1991, so I went to the range Saturday. As recommended by many readers and especially Kim du Toit, I purchased an eight round Wilson Combat mag for my Colt plus I replaced the recoil spring with a Wilson Combat recoil spring and even put some Wilson Combat grease on the rails. The Wilson Combat mag sticks out underneath, making my gun lose some of its simplicity, but that new mag sure makes the regular Colt magazine (the one lying next to the gun) seem like a crude piece of tin hammered out by some caveman.
Anyhoo, here is how things went at the range (this time I remembered a pen):
First I tried my Kel-Tec P3AT one handed (the thing is just too small for two hands) at close range, firing three of it’s six round mags. It jammed a number of times, but it’s in its breaking in period.
Results (Sorry I wrote “clips” on the target; I caught myself later on as I knew some readers would get there panties in a bunch when they saw that improper use of firearm terminology)
Next I tried out my .45, two-hands on it firing 20 Winchester jacketed hollow points at 10 yards. No problems.
Results
Now I fired three 8-rd mags of FMJ hodling with just my right hand. Again, no problems.
Results
Time for my PPK, which I fired left-handed, first round of each mag at double action. Pretty accurate for my off hand if I do say so myself, but what you don’t see is how often the damn thing jammed plus had other problems such as the trigger pull not ever firing the bullet (no duds; just pulled the trigger again double action and it fired).
Results
With two hands on the PPK, there were less jams, but there were still some problems with the firing pin. I really like this gun, as it is quite accurate for its size, so I hate to see these problems.
Results.
Now I tried the Kel-Tec again. Still jammed multiple times, and it takes some getting used to its double action trigger, but it’s too early to have a verdict on the gun.
Results
Fired my .45 two-handed again. I’m going to blame my poor results on trying different styles of trigger pull (how much of my finger I put on the trigger).
Results
Finally, I put the target out at fifty feet and fired off three 10rd. mags of my Browning .22 target pistol. Well, if you count them, you will find thirty holes at least 🙂
Results
Well, I think my poor PPK needs to be taken to a gunsmith. I love that gun, but it’s malfunctioning too much for me to carry it. Some of it has to do with probably how I’m reacting to the recoil, but some must be internals. Also, I can never get it to eject a round by manually pulling back the slide; I have to pull back the slide and let the round fall out the back of the barrel and down the handle.
It’s great to see my baby, my Colt 1991, not have any problems. The only thing was after cleaning and disassembly, it almost seems I’m jamming that recoil spring in there. I think I should replace the spring cap with a full guide rod to keep the spring in place.
As for the Kel-Tec, I’ll wait to see how it performs now that I’ve disassembled and cleaned it myself. It may just need some more breaking in.
Happy shooting.
I’m jealous. I just can’t shoot with my off hand. If I lose my right hand in a tragic staple gun incident at a Lowe’s Home Improvement seminar, the bad guys are in luck….
I have a Kel-Tec P-11, and guy I know has the P-32. I never really had trouble with jamming, but I know the Kel-Tec is pretty picky when it comes to ammo.
I would try changing ammos if it keeps jamming.
Frank
The groups with the .45 look pretty good. Keep your head up. Check the shooting clockface at http://www.bullseyepistol.com/ , under the Error Analysis and Correction link (5th entry in the 4th paragraph). That thing really works; its been around forever. Also, why do you keep calling your 1911 a 1991? Is that a Colt thing? I wouldn’t know; my .45s are all Kimbers.
Don’t forget about natural body positioning. It really helps. Stand on the target line with your hands empty. Close your eyes and move your body into the position you’re going to shoot from. Pretend the pistol is in your hands and aim at the target. Now open your eyes. If your “gun” isn’t pointing right at the target move your feet to properly align it. Repeat until you know exactly where to stand. This puts you in a neutral, relaxed body position that is right on target.
A full length guide rod keeps the mainspring from binding and bending so it lasts longer. Get one.
Drew
Frank, the PPK/Ss that were made in the US are notorious for having malfunctions. If it was MADE by Interarms, it will have a problem. If it was made in Germany and distributed by Interarms, it should shoot like a dream. Take it to a gunsmith and he can fix it up right. You didn’t use the P-99?
improper use of firearm terminology….
your dead to me Frank….
I, too, had a Kel-tec P-11. Once I had removed a few burrs on the slide and hammer, it was remarkably reliable. However, it always required a FIRM grip to cycle properly. You can’t hold it loosely like you might with a 1911, the frame hasn’t enough mass to keep the inertia in the slide allowing it to fully cycle. Try holding the gun very tight.
Every time I see that, my brain sees “K-Tel” and then I get songs from the 60’s stuck in my
head.
The M1991A1 is a specific Colt model, their updated version of the 1911.
I believe my PPK/S is an American made one from Interarms (I enoountered another shooter at the range who had a American PPK/S he had problems with).
I’ll take my P99 to the range next time. I’m still warming up to composites.
Thanks for all the advice again; I really appreciate it.
Darn, Ken N. beat me to the punch so I will just second his advice: if you have a semi auto that is not cycling consistently, check your grip. Larger guns have enough mass in the slide that a loose grip (the term is “limp wristing” by the way) doesn’t generally affect the action, but lighter ones can be very susceptible to it. It doesn’t seem that a loose grip would steal enough inertia to affect the cycling, but it does.
I first heard about this when the Navy bent to Congressional pressure and replaced the old reliable 1911A1s with Beretta M9s. We started seeing previously competent shooters have trouble with the slide cycling, and limp wristing turned out to be the cause. Considering the efforts Beretta went to to lighten the slide (apparently to reduce perceived recoil) that isn’t surprising in retrospect.
You only have pistols???
Where’s the pre-Brady stuff, Frank? Where’s the rifles and SMGs and the fifty-caliber toys? Where’s the FIREPOWER?
Dammit, you need FIREPOWER! You’re only… a few hundred miles from Cuba; not far from Mexico, in the same country as Massachusetts, on the same latitude as California, on the same longtitude as a whole bunch of monkeys who want nothing more than to eat your skin.
Gotta start a fund to buy Frank some big guns. Pistols are nice and all, but…
AK
Gotta agree with Leo. Handguns are cute, but about as useful as tits on a boar past about seven yards. While I love my customized M-1927 (Argentine) .45, It’ll be in its holster till I run our of ammo for both my M1 Garand and Remington 870.
Geex, guys, my focus is conceal carry here. Do you walk around town with your rifle lsung over your shoulder?
I tell you what Frank, when you’re trying to convince someone that they don’t want to break into your house, nothing is quite so comforting as a shotgun. Just sayin’ is all.
Nony Mouse,
Check the Peace Gallery.
As a competitive pistol and rifle shooter… I am appalled that you shot midrange with a 9mm and .45acp, but glad that you shot .22 at the correct distance…
If I shoot outside the 9 ring in slowfire at 50ft with my old 1911 (the pistol predates my father) I get frustrated. 5 + 5 rapid fire with it though… that is another story altogether, I’m happy if I don’t hit outside the 8 ring there.
Amen Nony! Especially a pump action 12 guage. There’s nothing quite like the laxitive qualities of being in a strange dark house and hearing the action on a pump shotgun. heheh
Rob,
Right now I’m not trying to be a competitive shooter – maybe in the future. I’m trying practice for self defense purposes (thus firing the PPK left handed as I had been carrying it as a gun to draw with my off hand).
Steve Skubinna,
That is the exact troubles I have with my Beretta; plus the .40 round just doesn’t seem manly enough 🙁
Wish I had more money to invest in firearms…
Frank,
Yeah, yeah, I remember… I was just posting that in response to the ‘do you guys walk around with your rifles slung over your shoulders’ comment.
Krakatoa,
A friend of mine once commented that it is that noise which is the International ‘Initiation of Territorial Dispute’ Signal. And it was so funny at the time because it was true.
Man, I’m feeling all sorts of left out. All I have is a nice Wesson .357 and a .22 made out of M14 parts. I could stab someone with my kBar and if all that fails, I’ve got a 3xD-cell MagLite I could bonk them on the head with.
Maybe I should start blogging and people will buy me guns.
It just irks me whenever I see someone shooting mid-range, because generally shooting ranges frown upon it, or completely disallow it (I live in Ct, really can only shoot at ranges here).
I saw the 50ft NRA slowfire target… and when I see a target used at the wrong range, it just sets up the whole target picture problems in my mind, then again, you shouldn’t hit outside the black, especially two handed.
Frank — I have a PPK as well. PPKs are unusually susceptible to “limp wristing.” It’s a problem with blow-back actions in general (maybe that’s partly the problem with your Kel-tech, too), but the PPK seems especially prone to it. Holding the pistol too loosely transfers some of the energy to your arm (thus acting as a shock absorber), and thus consuming some of the energy that the action would otherwise use to cycle itself (I realize this isn’t a technically precise answer, but the imagery works). The solution is a firm grip. Practice. Practice. Practice.
FWIW, I have a Kel-Tec P32 and have never had problems with it jamming. I do fire it with a very firm grip because I have big hands and I’m always a little afraid it’s going to go flying over my shoulder or something because it’s so tiny.
I also have a Kel-Tec Sub 2000 Rifle which is loads of fun to shoot. Folding carbine, takes Glock mags.
I’m another P32 owner and have had only one single problem, which didn’t occurr early one but it was a doozy–complete failure to extract. The casing was stuck fully inserted into the chamber after it was fired, and I had to remove the magazine and use a screwdriver to pull the casing out by the rim. I was shooting American Eagle FMJ at the time, but have never had another problem with it or with Gold Dots either. The only breaking in I ever did was about 1000 trigger pulls with snap caps.
I certainly hold it with a firm grip, which is the only way I can imagine getting both hands on it.
Bob, for what it’s worth, the P32 and P3AT aren’t blowbacks–they are (probably the world’s smallest) genuine breech-locks.
Geez, Whitey. I barely ever seen anyone put the target all the way out at the range (except this one indoor I go to that allows rifles where you have to if firing a rifle). To make you happy, I’ll see if I can find targets with larger black areas.
Frank,
Having put many, many thousands of rounds through the 1911, let me take a moment to disagree:
Do not, do not, do not hang a guide rod (or adjustable sights, funky grip safety, adjustable trigger, extended slide release or any one of a hundred other after-market geegaws) on any 1911 you intend for “social use.” I’ve never had or seen a standard recoil spring/plunger/bushing tie up a pistol. I’ve never known a guide rod assembly to make a pistol more reliable but I’ve certainly seen them lead to function problems. (See Commandment XI – “Lest thou art also a firearms design genius, thou shalt not ‘improve’ on John Moses Browning’s works.”)
Recoil springs are cheap and easy to replace. Get some Wilson Shok-Buffs. When you’re beating them to a pulp every 1000 rounds or so, time for a new spring.
Review a military manual* for the correct way to reassemble your pistol. You shouldn’t jam the spring into the slide. (BTW, did you know you can completely disassemble a 1911, down to the smallest component, using only the pistol itself for tools? Even Gaston Glock couldn’t manage that degree of “perfection.”)
The 1911 is a reliable, rugged, yet precision instrument for turning worthless human manure into valuable fertilizer. Keep it simple – don’t mess with 93 years of success.
Quoth Jeff Cooper: “We have long maintained that the only accessories that a 1911 needs are a trigger you can manage, sights that you can see, and a dehorning job.”
* http://www.m1911.org/full_striping.htm
(see also)
http://www.m1911.org/full_technic.htm
http://www.sightm1911.com/manual/manual.htm
I disagree – Definitely put in a full length guide rod – Wilson, Baer, Springfield and Kimber do that to all their high end guns, and its a cheap mod. Also, polishing out the throat and ramps help a lot as well (make it less finicky about different point configurations).
My Kimber Eclipse II has been absolutely reliable (with guide rod) and shoots sub 2″ groups consistently at 25 yards.
As far as sights – if you hit where you are aiming at with stock sights, then leave em be – though tritium is nifty for low/no light situations.
jg
I also own the Keltec. It jammed and jammed and misfired… I finally sent it back to the company to have them re-do it. It hasn’t messed up at all since then, but I haven’t shot it much either.
Kel-tec has some occasional issues with “finishing”. Mine was wrought with burs on the hammer and in the slide grooves. This had obvious consequences, but once the parts were smooth and polished it was good to go.
A lot of these problems can be dealt with at home with a small file and some emery cloth. However, if you don’t feel competent to do so, it would be best to do as Adela and send it back. They’ll fix it for free.
The phrase “jammed multiple times” suggests you might want to try out your little K-Tel Cannon as a frisbee… or maybe a dinghy anchor…
“Click” is not your friend.
What to do, what to do?
I’ve been eyeballing the Kel-Tec P3AT for a while now, but my wife, Keeper Of The Checkbook, informs me that due to several cross-country trips I’m going to be taking shortly, our budget can support either the Kel-Tec, or a new Canon SD110 digital camera. Not both.
I really want that Kel-Tec, but I already own four handguns (Glock 23, Smith & Wesson M67, Taurus M605, and Para-Ordnance P16.40 Law Enforcement Variant) but no digital cameras. Choices, choices….