Are the Tobit posts offensive?
Now, I’m a religious man who prays daily, and I don’t think they’re offensive. Omnipotence is great fodder for satire, and I think God can enjoy a good ribbing. Some, though, seem to think that’s disrespectful to blasphemous.
I have had God in parodies before, and it never seemed to cause trouble (see here, here, and here), so I’m wondering how these are different. Is it because God is mean in these (he was a bit cantankerous in the Old Testament)?
Well, I only have one more Tobit bit which I think is particularly inspired (by whom is debatable), and I’ll post it next Sunday. I’ll put a warning, though, and you’ll have to click “More” to read it so anyone who doesn’t want to can skip it. But it will be posted, as a good joke eats at ones soul if it goes unshared. Still, my goal is to post good humor without offending anyone… other than Commies and hippies, and thus I want everyone’s opinion for future reference.
So, what do you think?
I am a firm believer in God and am not offended at all. My point of view, an infinite being must, by definition, have an infinite sense of humor.
Glad to hear you are praying daily. Keep it up. Too bad Bill Maher thinks that is stupid. Where did this guy come from anyway? His analysis of what’s wrong with American Democracy is right out of 2nd grade civics. Maher thinks so much of himself that he is lost in his own arrogance. Imagine, he thinks 50% of the people in America are smart – the ones who agree with him. What a dimwitted fool he is – but eloquent enough to have a following … over a cliff.
I am the son of a conservative minister, and the brother of an even more conservative minister. I suspect that my father would not find them funny, but that my brother would. It has less to do with their concept of blasphemy, and more to do with their sense of humor.
Personally, I thought it was extremely funny, but then, while a regular church goer, I’m not exactly in lock step with all the beliefs taught in Christianity. I say, “Rock On!”
The God I believe in has a sense of humor. Keep up the good work.
Look around at the world in general and there can be know doubt as to God’s sense of humor.
And despite what Democrats and liberals want, there is still free speech in this country. Your site, your blog, your call Frank. Write whatever the HELL you want!
i have an outstanding sense of humor, as you know.
i’ve found the Tobit posts that included God to be blasphemous, yet i haven’t felt the same way about IMWs. don’t know why. i do believe God has a sense of humor, but i just like to be careful not to be flippant about Him.
thanks for the More clicky, though.
God’s Omnipotence is mind-boggling; it’s not just the omni of lim x->infinity of x, it’s the omni of at least lim x->infinity of exp(x), which is so much bigger that it’s still infinite after being divided by the first punier infinity. People poke fun at it by saying ‘Could God make a rock so big He couldn’t lift it?’ I ask ‘if he did, how would you know?’ You’d just have to take Him at His word like always — it’d be “Dear God, please life this rock for nobody in the whole world but you can Amen” and He’d say “But I made that rock so big I can’t lift it either.” And you’d just have to trust Him — maybe it could be a trick, God being omnipotent and all. But God has made a few rocks that big. The first one is thanks to the miracle of trinitarianism — God the Father could lift the rock hiding the exact date of the apocalypse, but God the Son couldn’t — aren’t they still the same? The second one is even weirder — Free Will. It’s like every hardened heart is a rock that the owner can lift but God can’t. Or maybe He only chooses not to? All I know is that selling mangoes to the Devil is a bad idea as seen in the movie “Indiana Jones and the Mangoes of DOOM” where teleporting mangoes off of Mars resulted in evil monsters from Hell coming back.
I think that God must have a sense of Humor. Look at John Kerry, for crying out loud!
As Jesus was teaching, they brought to him a woman caught in adultery and asked if she should be stoned to death.
Jesus answered them and said “Let him who is without sin cast the first stone at her.”
Immediately, a fiery meteor fell from the sky and struck the woman.
And Jesus looked up and said “Cut it out, Dad, I’m trying to make a point here.”
Yes, God was cantankerous in the Old Testament. Hilariously so, when I was growing up, in bible study class, our minister used it for humor and to get our attention. We even acted out some of the passages. Everyone wanted to be God talking.
I’m 52 and turned out ok, it gives me comfort to think God has humor. Because of that, I can laugh, find humor, and in some situations that laughter has eased the moment, and helped everyone around lighten up.
Of course, if you hear his voice, and get smited on the head, you will know you went to far. :D)
David, you got it wrong. A lady in blue dashed up and crushed her head with a boulder. Jesus said, “Dammit Ma, sometimes you tick me off.”
I sure hope if there is a G-d He has a sense of humor.
I personally think He has a pretty twisted sense of humor. Look at what He does to the Jews. He messes with them the way I hassle girlfriend’s cats. And I know that makes me laugh.
If He doesn’t have one, it’s too late now. I’d be more worried by the point Homer raises, “What if we picked the wrong religion, every week we’re making G-d madder and madder.”
Either way, see you in hell.
I agree with Chris. It’s a free country and it’s your blog, so do whatever you want. My feelings are the opposite of Sarahk’s (whom I heart!): The Tobit posts have had me laughing my head off while the IMW’s are the ones that made me wince sometimes. But, ultimately Frank, it’s up to you to let your conscience be your guide and since you’re praying everyday I’m sure God will let you know if your bugging him. Unfortunately He may use lightning to get His point across.
It’s alright- humor comes from God, anyway. Chesterton has a great quote about Satan falling from the force of gravity; i.e., he took himself so seriously that he defied God and fell. I don’t think God minds a little joshing.
I think they’re funny, but I’m an evil Humanist sent by the devil to lead you astray. In fact, I have to return to Humanism HQ this evening for my bi-monthly debriefing; “Encouraged Frank J. to continue bible satire” will look good in my report.
In all seriousness, Frank, I suspect that God – if He exists – is a little more laid back about this stuff than the scowling prudes of the AFA and the CC would have us believe. A just and wise creator would certainly be able to take a joke (especially a good joke). Now some of his followers, on the other hand …
S
Of course God has a sense of humor – look at the platypus!
I am not a Catholic, so I don’t really know too much about the Aprophpa (SP?) or Tobit. I have never researched it properly. My friend who is a Catholic says he is surprised I am not one. (Since the Catholic church is pretty much the same according to him)
I say it has a lot to do with how you were raised – my family never went to church and I was saved through a friend in my teens, and I went to a Baptist church initially, and then when I met my future wife, I went to her church, and have been ever since.
I am a member of the Missionary Church
http://www.mcusa.org/
I have been going to different churches in that domination for over 10 years now.
As for blasphemous, I cannot say, I think it depends on who is doing it really believes. God knows what is in your heart. I don’t have a problem with parody too much, even religious stuff, if I know the person who is doing it.
Does that make sense?
Seriously though, there are and always will be serious differences between Protestants and Catholics, I have heard both sides of the Martin Luthor debate. I don’t think this website is the place to drag it all out.
Despite our differences, I think Catholics and Protestants (Can I say conservative members of both?) do agree on a good majority of things, and we need each other to fight off the all the malcontents, including athiests, hippies, communists, socialists, etc.
Liberals in both camps, and other places, drive me nuts.
The Book of Tobit is going to be offensive to those who want to be offended.
For those of us who don’t grant primacy to our foibles, it’s funny.
I completely agree with everyone on God’s sense of humor. If He didn’t have one, we wouldn’t be here.
But, the thing that’s got me concerned is: When were you ever close enough to channel Kerry this way? I mean, come on! What’s with all the ‘don’t want to offend anyone’ stuff?
If you start worrying about keeping everyone happy and ‘offense-free’, we may have to start gettying worried about your political leanings.
Frank,
I can see how some people may be offended by these Tobit stories. However I personally think they’re assuming a bit too much about God’s sensitivities. I mean He’s not exactly an insecure deity, who’s going to get His hackles all-in-a-ruffle because one of His creations is trying to be funny. I mean He could always chase you down with a hurricane or two if he was really offended (oh, wait…)
I think it’s mostly people who are brittle and insecure about their faith that are going to get offended. I mean, you’re not trying to write material that is suitable for insertion in the Sunday church bulletin, right? And even then, some people will get their panties in a square-knot if anyone so much as attempts to crack a smile within the four walls of the church.
To call it blasphemy is going too far. Blasphemy is like libel. You can’t be successfully sued for libel for writing parody or satire. Likewise I don’t think the charge of blasphemy has any merit if what you are writing is clearly not meant to be taken seriously.
As a (Protestant Evangelical) Christian, I don’t find these Tobit pieces offensive. They’re funny because they poke fun at the hyper-religious and the spiritually uptight (the very people who will claim to be offended, by the way :). I think at least some of the offense may be feigned, and some of the rest may result from a “weak conscience” or and immature faith. So your idea to put it behind a “more” fold with a disclaimer sounds like a reasonable way to warn off those who would be easily offended.
Am I the only non believing conservative? I hate liberals, hippies, and musli…err, I mean, terrorists. I’m tolerant and someone’s beliefs, and never try to push my lack there of on others.
To answer your question, no I’m not offended. Then again, I’m probably going to burn in hell.
BTW, I’m a product of 12 years of Catholic school! LOL
I’m gonna have to go with SarahK on this one. They are humorous, and I don’t think G_d is insulted by them. However,
blasphemy: the act of depriving something of its sacred character
I would say that the Tobit pieces are blasphemous as applies to both G_d and the Bible. My primary concern would be with the framework of the story which pretends to place them within the Bible, and talks about them as part of the scripture. Obviously, this is parody and satire… but one of the purposes of satire and parody are to mock the pretensions of their object. I don’t particularly think the seriousness with which I address myself to the Scripture is a pretension – although of course it is not the only way to read it (like the preacher and the humorous old testiment stories above).
Yes, I think G_d is a living presence who is not at all bothered by these pieces. However, I wouldn’t show them to my sister – not because I think G_d would be upset but because she would be. She would percieve you are mocking the seriousness and importance that G_d and the Bible play in her life. A lot of folks believe the Bible is the revealed word of the Almighty – and satirizing it seems a lot like an attack on them.
Obviously, your blog, your speech. But you did ask.
Brian
WHy are so many people unable to type the word God? Why the G_d? Even in posts that were praising God, they wouldn’t spell out his name.
Personally, I am a non-practicing agnostic. But since god is spelled G-O-D not G_d I will type his name correctly, just in case that stuff ticks him off. Maybe he likes getting joshed, but hates when you get his name wrong.
It’s like, most guys don’t mind getting teased a little in bed, but don’t get our name wrong!
Desert Cat,
Attributing “hyper-religiousness”, “weak conscience”m and “immature faith” to anyone who thinks these pieces are going a little too far is… er, going a little too far. You think you can express your opinion without insulting those who disagree with you?
Yeah, Tobit is a very funny character. I don’t think the character is what anyone would consider an issue. Note that SarahK, as well as myself, don’t think there is any issue with the IMW segments (and I certainly didn’t have an ‘isssue’ with the bits in the sense that I would have commented on them if Frank hadn’t asked). I think the structuring of the jokes is questionable, and probably blasphemous. There is always a fine line between teasing and mockery. The intention of mockery is pretty much to demean – which makes it quesionable when applied to religion.
On the personal level, my sister doesn’t read your blog and I personally don’t get offended by people mocking things – even things I care about. I can’t imagine that too much of Frank’s readership could have a problem with mockery and satire, considering how much we enjoy the content which consists of almost nothing but.
Brian
No, Princess Kimberley, you’re not the only conservative unbeliever here. I’m a conservative-minded Independent, and I’m an atheist too (or, more precisely, an agnostic). There are actually quite a lot of us these days; many in the Neocon movement are rationalists of one stripe or another.
Interesting that so many of us are ex-Catholics. Perhaps that fact says something about the effect of rigid doctrine on the long-term faithfullness and contentedness of congregations. Protestantism – as well as neo-paganism and atheism, for that matter – seems to be adapting to the information age rather well. Catholicism is struggling. Some bright Theology student could probably do a great dissertation on that.
S
Why are you asking us? Go to God’s Blog and find out for sure.
Chris: Veeshir is probably being respectful. I don’t know his background. I know that some Jews (orthodox?) believe that you do not write the name of God. Being whacky Joooos, they take it a step further and don’t write anything that could be a name of God. Veeshir is either from this sort of background, or familiar with it and wants to respect it.
Personally, I view it as a title, and see no problem writing it.
Frank, as a fellow R.C., I say keep it up. If someone’s offended by something as lighthearted as your stuff, i think that’s an uptightness issue. Just my opinion.
I am an atheist conservative as well and I think the Book of Tobit is hilarious, and yes, its your blog, write what you want (as long as its funny and makes fun of liberals and the lot of course.)…
Well Frank you asked:
I have to go along with Brian and Beo above.
I agree you are profane and blaphemous with some of your posts. And I agree the Lord has a sense of humor. The Tobit stuff is hilarious, it’s when you have the Lord talking that gets to me.
As for spelling God, it’s Lord Jesus Christ. Anything that can be understood of God is expressed in the Lord Jesus Christ, the creator of the universe. That’s why people don’t like to spell it.
I also want to say that I should define blasphemy and profanity in biblical terms.
Blasphemy: To not show reverence to a thing that deserves it. i.e. You are putting words in the Lord’s mouth that He would never say. People attribute flawed qualities to the Lord. Like for instance say He were to play baseball. Do you think he would bat less than a thousand, ever? Or that could ever in His life have stubbed his toe? Okay, I’m pretty sure he wouldn’t have played baseball. Okay, that was an illegal thought in my part to even suggest He would play baseball.
Profane: To use something in an improper or vain way. For instance even what is called profanity has it’s place. I remember is was said of Eisenhower that you could always tell he was mad because that was the only time he would ever swear. So when he called bullshit on somebody it had a much more profound effect upon that person, simply because he used the word sparingly and properly. Compared to today where we throw around four letter words like there is no tomorrow. Thus making ourselves look like idiots, and desensitizing ourselves.
But as people have said it’s your website, do as you wish. Just remember all will stand before judgement and we’ll need to answer for the things we do here. I see writing this as no different than yelling to a guy in the street that a truck is about to hit him. I dunno, maybe you’ll get mad at the messenger, but that’s your problem, not mine.
You don’t mean any harm, so I don’t think any harm is being done. I’ll bet God gets the point; He’s smart. Please don’t deprive us of any of your wit because someone might be offended. Let he who is offended skip to the next post
You don’t mean any harm, so I don’t think any harm is being done. I’ll bet God gets the point; He’s smart. Please don’t deprive us of any of your wit because someone might be offended. Let he who is offended skip to the next post
frank,
I’m a missionary in Poland. I’ve been here for 7 years – came out full-time at 21 and have been living here ever since.
I’d say it’s not so important if you offend people – what’s important is if you offend Him. So, you say you pray every day – well, prayer is supposed to be a conversation – so ask Him and then wait and listen for His answer.
He’ll tell you all kinds of amazing things 😉
coreyb
tobit really funny. do more!
I have a feeling I know what Tobit’s last words are going to be.
“I’ll get you for this.”
Modern observant Jews spell “G-d” in reverence to Our Creator. I heard this comes from the fact that ancient written Hebrew did not have vowels and the ancient Hebrew name of God, Yahweh, was written in the Torah as “YHWH.”
Brian,
It was not my intent to insult any of Frank’s readers, and if it appears that I did, I apologize.
I think my chief point was that Frank is not satirizing God so much as he is some of His excessively uptight followers. Tobit is the butt of the jokes here, not God, even where he puts words in God’s mouth.
My reference to those with “weak conscience” was in reference to the Apostle Paul’s admonition to avoid offending the sensibilities of the “weaker brother” in those areas where the exercise of our freedom in Christ could hurt their faith. In that context I agreed with Frank that placing his religious satire below a “more” link with a warning label, could address this concern.
Well, I find the postings to be very very funny, and I do believe that God had a sense of humor, however, I don’t believe that He enjoys a “good ribbing”. Just cause He invented humor doesn’t mean it should ever make light of Him.
Galatians 6:7 says “Do not be deceived, God is not mocked; for whatever a man sows, this he will also reap.”
I’m sure you’ve heard that before but I think it is quite a serious matter when God is the “butt” of the jokes. And while it may seem harmless in every way at least now, it’s just sowing a bad bad thing.
It’s cool.
^ Ha!
Tobit is satire?
I represent the mango growing association of northern Illinois and I find it offensive that you have chosen the fruit that puts food on my jesus-loving table as a favorite snack of satan himself. Uncalled for, unwarranted, unacceptable, underwear tee hee.
Burn in hell you little green bastard
It offends me that people are offended! So there!
Frank,
As a born and raised Christian, I take no offense to the Book of Tobit parodies. I think God has a huge sense of humor! Otherwise we wouldn’t have people like John Kerry out running for public office flip-flopping left and right. Plus if you haven’t contracted any sort of sores or major calamities, I think God is laughing just as hard as we are.
-Bryan
P.S.
Did anyone take offense to Monty Python and the Seatch for the Holy Grail?
Am I the only non believing conservative?
No, you’re not. I’ve met quite a few rationalist/humanist/secularist/atheist conservatives, and they’re all a very respectful bunch as a whole.
I sometimes wonder this a lot myself, being a practicing pagan conservative. People who agree with me on politics don’t get (or worse, insult or spread lies about) my faith, and people who share my faith follow the mooing herd into the Kerry camp. It doesn’t really make a lot of sense to me, since most pagan faiths are about personal responsibility and giving back to the world around you.
But as for the topic…Frank, blasphemy is between you and whatever you deem to be the Divine. It’s your blog, and no one except G-d Himself has the right to tell you whether you’re being blasphemous or not. As Jesus said, “Let he who is without sin cast the first stone.” Let your faith decide the answer to that question, Frank.
I didn’t find the latest one offensive; but I did find the previous Book of Tobit post offensive.
I don’t mind making funding of characters under the mock-pretext of Biblical writing, but making fun of God is strictly taboo.
Perchance if you simply limited your cast to non-ominpotent characters? (Of course, God could play a directing role, just not as one of the targets of the humor of the story).
I think it’s completley blasphemous, but you’ve never listened to me in the past, especially when you had Jesus using the “F” word. I guess it’s OK since you’re cathlic.
G-d must have a sense of humor, or humans wouldn’t exist. I think when He says, “…in my image…” humor is included in the deal.
So put me in the “keep doing what you’re doing” column, but use the warning and extended entry so as not to upset the beautiful and talented sarahk.
Andi,
You are not alone either. HERE is a blog you might want to check out. She is another pagan conservative.
Thanks for the link, Desert Cat, except it doesn’t work. 🙁
The answer that counts is between you and God, nobody else, and that is the truth, take it or leave it.
If you didnt take offense to Monty Python, you shouldn’t take offense to Tobit. It’s the same theme. Monty Python have God talking to King Arthur in pretty much the same context as Frank does. MPs version has Him saying “Oh, don’t grovel.. do get up! If there’s one thing i can’t stand, it’s people grovelling!!” and “And don’t apologize. Everytime I try to talk to someone it’s I’m sorry this and forgive me that and I’m not worthy and… What are you doing now?” followed by “Well, don’t. I really don’t know where all this got started. It’s like those miserable psalms. They’re so depressing. Now knock it off.” etc.
So if you weren’t offended by that, how can you be offended by the book of tobit?
if anyone finds the pictures of pharaoh’s chariots at the bottom of the gulf of aqaba as a result of your pushing God’s envelope, it’s worth it.
I don’t think it’s offensive at all. I just don’t get it. Everything else Frank does has me ROTFLMAO, but the Tobit stuff just sails right over me. Maybe I’m dense. Maybe, as someone who, despite strong faith, has little exposure to organized religion, I don’t have the experience needed to get the in-jokes. Maybe I have to be Catholic. Whatever. I just don’t appreciate it because it makes no sense to me.
But don’t let that stop you. It’s sound like a lot of other people really enjoy it, so keep at it.
Rats. Right-click, “copy link location”, paste in a new window (Mozilla). I guess Frank has a no-link policy?
I aint offended, but in all honesty, don’t think they’re all that great. Shrug
As a firm believer in Tobit, I say “Keep it up.”
I would like to see the one being made fun of the atheists or pagans, not God. Really, God puts up with us every day without blasting us all with lightning by 5 pm, so I think we shouldn’t push Him. Keep up the praying, Frank … something must be working, because SarahK still hearts you!
I consider myself a Christian, and I am not offended. If you can’t laugh at yourself, you can you laugh at?
I have enjoyed the Tobit series, and would like you to see them through thier natural cycle.
OK. maybe i defended my position a little too hard, because i just got 90% of the shampoo that was in my hand into my eye, and i think that was me being smited.
All you atheists and agnostics out there should check out this guy’s story before you check out of hotel earth.
http://www.near-death.com/storm.html
Just trying to help.
Deglieb, bully for him.
While I understand that you are “trying to help” (even if that does come off sounding like “I know you people are going to kick my ass because I’m being a jerk, please don’t hurt me whine“), that does not excuse the rudeness or inanity of you attempting to use Frank’s comments as your own personal bully pulpit. I think you owe Frank an apology for that post. This is not about your faith or mine, it’s about his.
Dude, the Tobit posts rule! This coming from a die hard Chirsitian. I laugh loud and long at the posts and do not find them to be offending in the least. If the Creator has no sense of humor, explain the platypus…
Someone needs to come up with a new phrase besides “God has a sense of humor just look at the platypus” or “God has a sense of humor just look at John Kerry”… the platypus one is from Dogma anyways, which they probably got from somewhere else… BE CREATIVE PEOPLE!
3…2…1…
No, Beo. Let me say this really slowly so that you get it. Posting comments on topics is fine. Wandering off topic to cram your particular version of the faith down other people’s throats is not fine. That is the problem I’ve got with Deglieb’s post, and frankly, with yours. I do not begrudge you your faith — I wish you well of it. Just stop trying to shove it down my throat, please.
Andi, try this: http://www.sondrak.com (with a stop after the www).
Frank, FWIIW: I am an agnostic/atheist raised as a Catholic, I am not offended by your Tobit stories (easy guess) and find them funny. (A nitpick for Protestants: Catholics call those extra books Deuterocanonical -“in the second canon”-, and save Apocryphal for the ones not included even in their, or my, Bible).
“Blasphemy 1 a: the act of insulting or showing contempt or lack of reverence for God”.
It is evident that you don’t think God is as you portray Him, no more than you think Bush is dumb or Rove evil (I hope), so it is not blasphemy-as-insulting-or-showing-contempt. But it could be blasphemy-as-lack-of-reverence, although no more than your other, non-Biblical, God cameos. I suspect it is the God+Bible that lights the alarms.
So you’ll have to ponder it, consulting your conscience, your God, your Church and (dare I to suppose) Sarah K. Not necessarily in this particular order.
Lets just all calm down since no one is cramming anything into anyone.. you aren’t forced to follow the link. Just like skipping over the Christian television station, skip over what doesn’t interest you. No need to get upset about it. The last thing this forum should become is a “you suck.. no you suck!! No stop telling me i’m wrong!” bickering high-school forum. Yeay! Smile!
three quotes summarize my 2 cents:
sandor: “I suspect that God… is a little more laid back about this stuff than the scowling prudes… would have us believe”
jonag: “It’s a free country and it’s your blog, so do whatever you want”
sarahk: “i just like to be careful not to be flippant about Him”
also, one minor comment on a comment:
veeshir: “Look at what He does to the Jews”? read closer – they did most of it to themselves.
What? The platypus comment is from Dogma? Is that a movie? If so, I have not seen it, nor do I intend to.
I heard the platypus line in a Sunday school class, must be about 8 or 9 years ago now.
Must be less original then I thought.
I will attempt another more original one in the future.
Frank,
Don’t be too hard on yourself about this “humor” thing with the Tobit posts.
I have it on good authority that God has a great sense of humor and that He derives great pleasure in it just a you and I do. After all He invented it (Humor). I think He likes the fact that we’re always good for a laugh now and then.
As a matter of fact, I think God is a Republican ’cause democrats don’t have much of a sense of humor! 😉
nope, sorry, you’re going to hell.
kid-ding (but do check the hurricane forecasts – they started up when you started doing Tobit).
jonag, some people have a high degree of offensensitivity!
A God that would make Sarah (in Genesis, not Sarahk!) pregnant at her age must know how to laugh a little. And after all, He gave us humor.
A “thanks Cliffy” moment: Scott, you’re right that ancient Hebrew had no vowels. YHWH was written just like you said. Later, when vowels were created for the written language, translators called Masoretes added the vowel points (marks around the consonants) of the word Adonai (God) to the letters YHWH, to encourage those reading the scriptures to say “Adonai” out loud instead of messing up and saying “YHWH”. This was later mistranslated as “Jehovah”. Jehovah is a word that the Hebrew people say “huh”? to, it’s not a Hebrew word.
Everybody say “thanks Cliffy”.
It doesn’t offend me that much, but then again, the book of Tobit isn’t in my Protestant Bible. I think it’s funny, but I don’t fully understand the jokes since I’ve never looked at the books not included in my Bible that appear in Catholic Bibles. People make paraphrases all the time what’s so bad about one that happens to be funny? Then again if you are pretty religious, I think therej’s something in the good book about those who add or take away from the text will get themselves in trouble.
Whatever happened to “Judge not lest ye be judged”?
Me: Arch Mega Rosary-saying, Mass-going Roman Catholic..prolife pro bible pro God..also not offended at all by the Tobit stuff. Ditto for the husband. Please keep it up.
I’m a Catholic and very religious and even I think they’re hilarious.
New Slogan:
Nuke the Gay Whales for Jesus.
notice it’s FOR Jesus.
DixieDarlin’, finish the quote:
Jesus never said to ignore sin. Quite the contrary. What He said is that if you point out someone else’s sin, you’d better make sure you’re not guilty of the same sin, or you’ll be judged in the same way.
Also, here’s a verse that gets mangled all the time. How many times have you heard “money is the root of all evil?” That’s just plain wrong.
And Andi, I don’t want to get in a tit-for-tat argument. But my link (and his) were no more off topic than discussing sondrak.com or talking about pagan conservativism. Which is fine; one thing leads to another in a forum discussion. I’m not cramming anything down anyone’s throat. I’m sharing my faith the same way you’re sharing your lack of it. I don’t take any offense at you; I hope you won’t take any at me. But if you do, that’s not my problem either. And if Frank doesn’t like what I post, he’s perfectly free to ban me.
Speaking as a LCMS Lutheran… Well, Tobit isn’t the real Bible, it’s just that Apocrapha (more like Apo-crap-ha) thing you papists use.
It’s not really offensive to see you satirize your own stuff. I mean, you’re going to hell because you’re not Lutheran anyway, so what could it hurt?
Seriously, though… After all the crap we hear regularly from the usual, “oh, you’re a Christian? How quaint” crowd, no, that’s not offensive. As to whether it’s blasphemy? Not a real scripture to me, so to me it’s just like you’re giving a humorous rendition of Antigone or something. I would think it wouldn’t be even if you consider it a scripture unless you’re changing the overall meaning of the passages. Otherwise anybody from Big Idea productions is in deep trouble for Veggie Tales
Beo — I just have this feeling that you accidentally hit a hot button by mentioning the land down under that isn’t Australia with the man in the red suit who isn’t Santa Claus.
Some people will convert for fear of that other place, but others just get mad at God for its very existence, even if their own attitudes give them ample foretaste of it. Sharing faith sometimes just means letting people know that life does get easier when lived with Him. The mention of years in Catholic School was the hint — these people have heard “suffer” a few times too many.
Note that I said stuff that had nothing to do with anything but assumes the existance of God & nobody got mad at all! (I just got ignored)
Imagine if a Kerry supporter told you that if you vote Kerry, you get a bunch of money later on, but if you vote Bush, later on the whole country falls apart. When you say “that’s nonsense!” the Kerry supporter says “but Fahrenheit 9/11!!” That’s how Andi feels, roughly, if I’m reading the comments rightly. It’s not so persuasiveas you might think.
I think I’ve found Frank’s secret too — he likes to poke fun at things that are sKerry so that they don’t frighten anymore. For example, God has a box he keeps his stuff in that you can’t touch and 2 Samuel 6:6-9 isn’t nearly so funny as the first Tobit Story, nor is Job 1:6-12 nearly so funny as the second one. A mango-buying devil is not a scary fellow like a tempter set on bringing you into a land of endless sufferring using your character flaws as leverage is.
Oh, and you also made a key mistake in saying that atheism is “lack of faith.” Believing in the nonsense Darwin & Sagan spewed out about evolution & cyclical universes (and if the universe has a beginning, what caused it?) is much harder than believing in God.
Loved your scriptures and you’re dead on about people quoting the first half & missing the point, also after let him without sin through the first stone, GO AND SIN NO MORE is important.
God bless you, — Capitalist_B
Steven Den Beste, one of the best essaying type Blogges around until he pooped out trying to answer idiots is one of the best anti-left aethist bloggers around, and I say that as a so-so Christian. I still think One Hand Clapping, a Methodist minister, quit blogging to keep things balanced, he and Den Beste had linked to each other. As for bad religious jokes,I’ve heard quite a few from ministers. Punch lines:
Shhhhh, they think they are the only ones up here.
Dammmmmm termites!!
The feet first kid! The feet first!
God vs. the Golfers is a popular subject.
What’s been fun is imagining someone, who hasn’t looked at a Bible in twenty years, heading for the religious book store or the public library trying to confirm what is in the Book of Tobit.
Frank probably has inspired more theological research than Billy Graham.
As a practicing Christian (Methodist), I find the Tobit stuff to be pretty good, and I am personally not offended. If I were offended, I wouldn’t read it. I would simply knock the dust off my sandals and move on. God knows your heart as you write, just as He knows mine as I read. But I would recommend (as others have done)that if there is a question in your mind after having been criticized, that you pray about it and follow your heart. God won’t let you down. He will give you a clear answer. But you knew that already.
great stuff. my vision of God includes a wonderful sense of humor…
just look at the world around us. Plus he gave us Frank J. I bet he is a regular reader if not a poster.
Adam
Andi:
I’m not trying to ram anything down anyone’s throat, that’s why I kept it short.
I thought the story was interesting because it’s about an atheist.
Good luck.
I’ve just been quietly reading, but I would just like to say that I don’t think posting a link is shoving ideology down anyone’s throat. None of this debate is.
Frank,
I’ve read all your Tobit posts, and all the comments, and for the most part, I’ve laughed. Your playing around with the text of Tobit doesn’t bother me in the least.
BUT … there was one thing that just stuck in my craw, and having read all these comments, I’m going to try to say it so that it makes sense. We’ll see if I succeed …
In your October 10 Tobit post, funny though it is, you imply that God was on the run after doing something wrong (“… if anyone comes around asking about Me, say you ain’t seen Me;” “…all I need is an alibi;” “…the Lord got away scott-free”). When you portray God as hiding from people, looking for an alibi, then the implication is that He’s done something bad. And according to Scripture, we are not supposed to ever impute sin to God, because He’s sinless.
Other than that, I always get a kick out of the posts — but that one thing stuck in my craw. I didn’t think it was like you to make God out to be capable of wrongdoing … talking smack, sure, but doing wrong? That goes against the very fabric of who He is and makes Him out to be less than God.
Anyway, that’s my $.02, for what it’s worth.
The first time I saw the platypus line it was done by Robin Williams in an HBO stand-up special in the 80’s.
And God is perfectly capable of standing up for himself. Frank, you just keep writing. However, I would stop if it starts raining.
And raining.
And raining.
And raining.
chris – the non-practicing agnostic
Robin Williams?!?!?!?!? (Projectile vomit spews forth!)
I have stopped liking him, among many other liberl malcontents in loony leftist land in Hollywood, espeically after the just horrid things he said about Bob Dole and GWB. Not to mention that horrid movie he made about…. heaven?
Robin-“So where is God?” (god?)
Guide of heaven?:” Oh he’s up there, somewhere.”
Sounds like Hinduism or something like that. I did a report many moons ago on Hinduism in my Comparative Religions class in college (What a waste of $$), and it confused me greatly. Levels of heaven, mana points, etc.
Speaking as a certified Godless Infidel(tm), I’m obviously not offended, I find them to be fairly funny(not as good as IMW posts, mind you, but funny nontheless). Then again, I’m probably not the audience segment you’re worried about, so just re-read the above 87 or so comments for something that might be more relevant 😉
As someone who is convinced he has the gift of prophecy, I can say I am 90-something% certain God enjoys your Tobit posts.