Soon, everyone will be having fun in the holidays and maybe about thinking about Jesus, and this is making some atheists mad so they want ad campaigns to stop it. Here is one of the problems with atheism: You have one person not believing and that’s okay I guess, but it just always gets weird when they’re like, “Let’s form a group and not believe in God together!” It just always ends up as a real pale imitation of a religion. And they’ve yet to come up with a good name for it. Some go with “free thinkers”, but anytime a group has to out front tell me how rational and logical they are, I always get the opposite impression. Another name the ad campaign is using is “humanism”, but could you get a name more vague? Do they raise money for George Constanza’s The Human Fund? Maybe this is their mascot.
And probably the worst part are that the most vocal atheists are also who sell it the most poorly. Not many people are saying, “Wow! I wish every little thing would make me bitter and angry at 90% of the population like these people!” And what’s the main appeal anyway? You get to be satisfied in how smart and reasonable you are while crusading in a cause that’s never achieved past fringe status in thousands of years?
Still, glad we have free speech and they get to do their ad campaign. You end up with a flabby, obese faith if doesn’t have to constantly fight off people trying to beat it up.
The irony is that they’re too stupid to realize that once they form groups they’ve pretty much become a religion. They just worship themselves…together.
your “ad campaigns to stop it” link doesn’t work! Outrage! I didn’t spend two years of my life in Iraq so you could have broken links! lol! No one ever told me that was one of the rights I was fighting for!!!!!
Many thanks papa frank!
the damned
Athiests don’t want law based on the 10 commandments, so I guess the woulld be okay with people killing each other.
Damn vocal atheists. I equate this kind of atheism to fringe extremist Islam – the crazy ones forming together and going on a crusade for their religion give the normal agnostic/atheists like me who just don’t bring it up a bad name.
You have to ask the question: “Why is killing someone bad?” How would an atheist answer that question? Because people have said so? That’s not very convincing.
I don’t tend to call athiests, much less whole groups of them.
Atheist’s tend to believe that out of nothing something appeared. Over the years it became something else, then something else, then something else, then eventually a rock, then a tree, then… me.
…and they say believing that it was all created is far fetched. Yeah, I’m the wierd one.
I was going to chime in with some silly collective name (a “gargle” of athiests?), but I think DamnCat wins for his answer.
What does God need with
a starshipworshipers?What do I call a group of atheists? The same thing I call Democrats: Boneheaded prodigals.
Question: Is the key simply keeping beta atheists away from packs of other, more aggressive atheists with their own alpha? For instance, Frank’s rabbit seems like a nice guy. Keep the betas to themselves and no one tries to be the alpha. The strength of the pack is reduced and the betas are suitable for work animals.
I’m with Ernie. The appropriately named DamnCat wins.
“What Do You Call a Group of Atheists?”
In Tennessee we call them liberals, progressives and the only recipients of NEA grants. Profoundly retarded, psycho unborn-baby killers, which is a superflous way of saying Democrat.
I’m an atheist and a registered Republican. I think some of the previous commentators are ill-informed about atheists.
As to Christmas, we didn’t start “the War on Xmas”. Conservative commentators did when they described atheists as anti-xmas after lawsuits were filed by atheists over ILLEGAL intrusions of church into state.
As to why atheists want to promote themselves and band together… we have religious fanatics committing terrorist acts, we have people trying to push their beliefs on us using the power of the state, etc.
As to declaring ourselves rational, some do. I acknowledge that many atheists are looney. However, at least we don’t believe the creator of everything demands blood and human sacrifice for forgiveness. THAT belief is obviously insane.
I always thought of atheists as another religion. I hear many of them worship the Earth. They call it “Mama Ghia” or some other stupid name.
I wonder what atheists think when they die and go to wherever God sends to determine who goes up or down. “Oh crap, did I have this wrong! I hope Hell has a Starbucks.”
I think we need to start an atheist club. How about the Atheist Club Libearls United?
Damncat, I agree.
points for the community reference!
How do you tell a vegan at a party? Don’t worry, they’ll tell you. Bwahahaha.
Seriously though, at what point do you form an organized group around something you don’t believe in? I don’t believe in telling kids there’s a Santa Claus, but I’m not going to organize and put out ads. BTW, you wouldn’t believe the grief I get from informing someone we tell our kids there’s no santa. I think I’d get less blowback if I said we tell them there’s no God.
Shiggz RT on Atheists.
-They want out of religion they say because of the the guilt, Crusades, and Inquisitions. But, that’s like the only things secularists seem to do these days and all at once. Its like religion without any of the good stuff but only with the once every 1000 years type bad stuff.
-Ill still take every murder ever committed by even the worst organizations in the name of religion and compare it to the deaths caused by Socialism, Kings, and unrestrained states. Not even a competition. Crusades were a counter attack after Islam had nearly wiped out Europe. That they kept going after reclaiming Europe was where they lost the just cause. If you are of European descent you would probably not exist if not for the Crusades. (I know imagine the carbon savings!)
-I always love how the first generation Atheist leaves religion but still retains some morals and principles etc.. and likes that their neighbors do but then cant convince their children why if there is no god that any of that crap matters. Even if I didn’t believe in God, I would be glad my neighbors did.
-Most cities have cop/citizen ratios of like 1/5000 or even 1/10000. Its not cops or ego-guilt that props up civilization, its that nearly all people have a conscious and worry that their deeds are known to an all knowing creator.
sorry ego-guilt = eco-guilt
As CS Lewis said “Atheism is too simple, if there is no God we should never have arrived at the question in the first place”!
Yup, I want to live my life believing that nothing I do matters, there is no purpose to anything, right and wrong are only illusions dictated by man and when I die I have no eternal soul! Sounds pretty cool to me!
The problem that they atheist has is that the moral law has been written onto man’s heart by God. Therefore we all know that it is wrong to steal, lie, covet, gossip etc. And, they are indeed, eternal beings but will not be pleased with their ultimate destination when they discover that their hubris has separated them from God forever!
Hmmm, Being slightly serious,
I think it should be a Denial of Athests.
Just remind them, when they accidently stub their toe, they have to shout out ‘Random fluxuations in an uncaring universe on a pogo stick!!!’
I equate atheism to eco-terrorism, liberalism and canada. I really only notice they are there when they annoy me and dismiss them just as quickly.
It must also be comforting to know that you are no more than an evolution of some single-cell creature that crawled out of the primordial ooze like a gazillion years ago and eventually evolved from the Monkey! Frank should be nicer to Monkey’s, after all they are your great grandfathers X 12 million squared or something!
Unfortunately for Darwin the Cambrian Explosion has debunked the “Tree of Life” that we all studied in school. It appears that life appeared on earth suddenly and all at about the same time…
A group of athiests? Oblivious and sad.
Really how sad is it to believe that THIS is all there is to life? Why is it worth going on if THIS is the best it gets? Just sayin’, not judgi’n.
Each and every comment here attacks a straw man. I would be more than happy to clear up any misconceptions you have about atheism in a civil way. If you have any interest whatsoever in treating atheists like human beings and not just fodder for blog humor, I beseech you to send me an e-mail.
Hummmm….I had no idea Butterfly McQueen was an athiest.
Proud Infidel wrote: I wonder what atheists think when they die and go to wherever God sends to determine who goes up or down. “Oh crap, did I have this wrong! I hope Hell has a Starbucks.”
Rowan Atkinson has a wonderful routine where he plays Satan, “welcoming” various groups to Hell. “Let’s see . . . atheists, over here, please. I’ll bet you’re feeling a right bunch of twits right now, eh?” And the coffee is always cold. (And there are no toilet facilities – “This is damnation WITHOUT relief.”)
Damn Cat had the winning answer.
P.S. Although I also like Mythilt’s suggestion. A pride of lions, a school of fish, an unkindness of ravens, an exultation of larks, a gaggle of geese, a murder of crows, a denial of atheists . . . It fits. It’s just not as funny as “the damned.”
Really? That’s the Bible verse they’re going to take issue with? Are they saying that the godless don’t rip open pregnant women and dash little ones to pieces? I guess no one’s told them about abortion.
Do atheist
churchesgroups get tax exempt status?I noticed they don’t quote that koran thing, since they hate all the violence religion causes, wouldn’t
that be the place to look for the most proof?
Four separate and competing national organizations representing various streams of atheists, humanists and freethinkers will soon be spreading their gospel through advertisements
I can’t believe that got by a NYT editor.
I don’t think you guys understand how many atheists think.
Since I realised I no longer believed in god (a long time ago, in my teens) and gained much more of an interest in science, I don’t think ‘is this all there is’ or ‘I have no purpose’. It is the complete opposite. I am in awe of life, the way it has formed and evolved, and how lucky we truely are that billions of years and a series of the right conditions have allowed us to evolve and become what we are today. Everything is more amazing when you don’t assume it was put there and consider the alternative. How lucky we are to be here!
Humanism is not about ‘worshipping people’ or doing the right thing because ‘people tell you to’. It’s about feeling and knowing in your heart what is right and wrong and wanting to be a good person because that’s who you are. And about seeing the best in other people, showing respect and love for other members of the Human Race. Doing and feeling all this because it’s how we want to be, without the stick of the fear of a consequence in heaven or afterlife if we didn’t.
[Just sounds like much less organized irrational beliefs. -Ed.]
As for purpose, I make my own purpose in life, to do good and feel good and leave a positive impact in my short lifetime. Then I will die. That makes life all the more precious as it’s the only chance I’ll get…
I know there are a few atheists who come across as aggressive, and personally I find that embarassing and I apologise for them… But these are not the majority – these are just the ones who are noticed most, as they are the most vocal..
I hope this helps with some of the misconceptions.
Thank you for reading.
Remember, calling yourself an atheist and being able to ramble off a long list of things “we” believe is really really different than calling yourself a Christian and being able to ramble off a long list of things “we” believe.
I’m an agnostic, so I don’t really have a pony in this race. Having said that, there are atheists out there who are unrivaled for their smug, self-righteous, condescending, pretentiousness. Just like with everything else, it’s the fanatics that ruin things for the rest of us.
Of course awesome people like S. E. Cupp help balance things out.
I guess, by definition, I’m an atheist, but I don’t belong to any group that designates me as such. I just want to say (and this is not in a snotty or argumentative tone… since you can’t tell by my typing) that the people here who are calling atheists names and saying derogatory things just sound very unchristian. I (without a god or bible to tell me to) try to be respectful of people and their beliefs or lack thereof. Also, all because I don’t believe in God, does not mean I believe in socialism, am “profoundly retarded” or vote Democrat.
What do you call a group of atheists? You call them all worthless and weak! Now drop and give me twenty! …Doug Neidermeyer
me thinks ussjimmycarter is a smart vessel. On the subject – Liberals are atheism’s best argument…how could they possibly have come from intelligent design??? hahahaha I say it is because God has a sense of humor!
Miss Nonbeliever,
What you say simply doesn’t make sense to me. How do you know what is “good” if everything, and that means everything and everyone you’ve ever known, is totally, completely random? Why should someone care about “good” if there is no moral order in the universe but a bunch of stuff that happens without feeling or care? Where is the incentive here?
Well, now… You wonder why Atheists are uniting? We’re the least trusted “religious” orientation in the US. This fact is clearly displayed here in this discussion. I for one like to seek out like minded individuals because there are social repercussions involved in outing myself as a nonbeliever… The recent rise in atheism is likely due to this negative social stigma… Which is ironic, this country largely belonging to a faith that purportedly champions tolerance…
“The atheist groups believe that people who are religious and politically liberal have more in common with atheists and seculars than they do with religious conservatives.”
Hey! they got One thing right!
How do the darwinists know humans evolved from apes?
Maybe the apes de-volved from humans.
I don’t see many apes becoming more human-like these days, but I can see humans becoming more ape-like on any given Saturday night.
Idk what’s worse, this article or the inane comments.
…. I just realized this is probably satire.
Why does being an Atheist have to do with being a Marxist? I mean I understand you have to be a atheist if you are a good Marxist, but why do you have to be a Marxist just because you are an atheist? I am hardly religious, but I don’t have a yearning for planned economies just because I don’t like church. I mean, if I am against blinding following the words of old dead men, just because they wrote their ideas down in a book that some find compelling, why would I feel that Karl Marx was any better of a philosopher then say Moses, or any more relevant? Not to put down Moses, but if there is no god, then he is just a crazy bearded guy with a lot of stern rules that are irrelevant in the real world, and since Marx admits there is no god commanding him, then we know he is just a crazy bearded guy with a lot of stern rules that are irrelevant in the real world. Christians at least believe their ideas are not just the ideas of some bearded guy, but one who is all knowing and all powerful. Again not a Christian myself, I just wonder about Marxist.
In the end, I am going to grow a beard, because that seems to be the path to being believed.
“Soon, everyone will be having fun in the holidays and maybe about thinking about Jesus, and this is making some atheists mad so they want ad campaigns to stop it.”
That is not what the article says and anyone who read the article knows it. I would call that misinforming, misquoting, misguiding…just more “lyin’ for jaysus” that you fundamentalcases are so good at.
Just like every year, you xtians are right on time w/ your protests and whining about the “war on xmas”. And as atheists, we so look forward to it every year! I’ve already checked this year’s (8th annual!) “Naughty & Nice” list from the Liberty Counsel of where I’ll be shopping this year to avoid the stores who choose to continue w/ “Merry Christmas” instead of including all faiths by saying “Happy Holidays” instead. I refuse to do business w/ stores who claim the winter solstice is a xtian holiday only and exclude non-believers and those of other faiths w/ the greeting “Merry xmas”!
You all are so smug in your ignorance of atheists. It’s comical, but no one expects any better from the deliberately uninformed and the willfully ignorant. I’m sorry that some of you cannot wrap your minds around complex subjects such as the concept of a moral atheist or evolution or the dirty fact that you have apes as common ancestors. Denial ain’t just a river in Egypt, now is it?
>> It just always ends up as a real pale imitation of a religion.
That is the stupidest thing I’ve read all week.
Oops, sorry! I’m wrong. THIS is the stupidest thing I’ve read all week:
>> Unfortunately for Darwin the Cambrian Explosion has debunked the “Tree of Life” that we all studied in school. It appears that life appeared on earth suddenly and all at about the same time…
How lovely to be pig-ignorant and to have the internet to share it with the world!
Incidentally, the C.S. Lewis quote is meaningless. It’s not an argument – it’s a presupposition.
This page is nothing more than another example of how religion is the enemy of education and critical thinking.
Enjoy your stay here on earth
Well, it’s a damn sight more convincing than, “Because the magical sky fairy said so.”
Hurting people is wrong. Killing people hurts them, and their friends and family. If you need god leaning over your shoulder to continually remind you that hurting other people is wrong, then you really have no business criticizing atheists for their lack of morality.
to answer markomancuso we care about things that are “good” because we’re human. I want to see my children succed and be happy, I want to see the rest of my species prosper and do well. Why do I care? Evilution probably, my genes make me predisposed to care, but my upbringing and life experience have had something to do with that.
and 4of7 you are truly stupid if you think the “Darwanist” stance on human evolution is that we “evolved from apes”. We evolved seperately form apes, we had a distant ancestor that we shared. Learn to read a damn book man or lady.
all in all it’s pretty pathetic to see all these people who have no clue what the atheist movement is about but pretend to know or understand. In a nut shell it’s about the pursuit of the truth, and knowledge. How to apply it to our lives to make them better for ALL humanity. We know god is man made because he happens to hate the same people that you do.
I gotta beard, no one believes me…………..
I’m an atheist. I don’t belong to an atheist group. I am aware of a few places on the internet that have collections of material that could be called atheistic, such as Richard Dawkin’s website. Apparently, many think that atheism is just like a religion of its own, but as far as I’m concerned the truth does not require belief. We don’t gather each Sunday to affirm our lack of faith because it is unnecessary.
4of7 says: “Hey! they got One thing right!
How do the darwinists know humans evolved from apes?
Maybe the apes de-volved from humans.
I don’t see many apes becoming more human-like these days, but I can see humans becoming more ape-like on any given Saturday night.”
Sadly, I feel the need to answer this ignorant remark. We know that humans evolved from other primates because we have what are called fossils. We can trace the changes in all primates over time. You need to understand that evolution is a process that happens over thousands of generations. When you assert that “I don’t see many apes becoming more human-like these days”, the truth is that you don’t really know if apes are evolving or not. One human lifetime is insignificant compared to the time it takes for most things to evolve. I have found that those who would most vehemently deny evolution are the least educated about it. To be fair though, it isn’t your fault that you know so little about the subject. There are people that create controversy where it does not truly exist in order to push their Christian agenda. After all, ideas like this aren’t in the bible, and its so scary to have to reevaluate your convictions.
# MarkoMancuso says:
November 11th, 2010 at 9:02 pm
“Miss Nonbeliever,
What you say simply doesn’t make sense to me. How do you know what is “good” if everything, and that means everything and everyone you’ve ever known, is totally, completely random? Why should someone care about “good” if there is no moral order in the universe but a bunch of stuff that happens without feeling or care? Where is the incentive here?”
First of all, every human being on this planet knows the difference between right and wrong. When you say, “How do you know what is “good” if everything, and that means everything and everyone you’ve ever known, is totally, completely random?”, does that mean that just because you have a certain belief that your human interactions are less random than her’s? Does divine intervention act in your life to provide you with friends and family, while the lives of nonbelievers are chaotic and random? “Why should someone care about “good” if there is no moral order in the universe but a bunch of stuff that happens without feeling or care? Where is the incentive here?” Sadly, this says to me that you need some kind of incentive (i.e., eternal punishment in hell) in order to be moral. Again, every human being on this planet knows the difference between right and wrong. For those of you that believe that morality is impossible without the ten commandments or the bible, understand that all of the ideas represented in these writings were present in earlier religions. It is amusing to me that you think that morality is nonexistent in man without god, yet the very ideas that comprise morality were written by man long ago, and only later were they “mysteriously and miraculously received from god”. You should also contemplate whether or not the so called morals in your bible mean anything at all. There is basically only one that people really consider, which is that a person should not kill. Those of you who are so fond of the ten commandments rarely follow them all, and for that I can’t really blame you. Some of them are quite questionable. For instance, “You shall have no other gods before me”, “You shall not make for yourself an idol”, “Do not take the name of the Lord in vain”, and “Remember the Sabbath and keep it holy” all sound fishy to me. They really shouldn’t be on the same list as “You shall not kill” because they are all geared toward preserving the fictitious faith. I couldn’t find the commandment, “Though shall not molest little boys and girls”, and that is one that is clearly needed, at least in my morally deficient atheistic mind. Apparently the pope disagrees. Let’s face it, Christianity is by far the bloodiest religion that has ever poisoned the minds of the masses.
NO_MO_BAMA says:
November 11th, 2010 at 7:11 pm
“Remember, calling yourself an atheist and being able to ramble off a long list of things “we” believe is really really different than calling yourself a Christian and being able to ramble off a long list of things “we” believe.”
Yes, I agree with that. Atheists present facts while Christians present unsubstantiated claims and expect others to simply believe. Its as if I told you there was a giant cock (the bird kind) in space orbiting the sun in between Mars and Jupiter, and then expected you to believe it. I could tell you that we meet once a week to affirm our faith and sing songs about the cock, that every now and then we eat bread in representation of the flesh of the cock and drink wine in representation of the blood of the cock, that we teach our kids from birth about the cock, and that the cock brings us morality and happiness. It would then be my job to prove my claims by providing evidence. The same is true of Christians. They make the claim, they must provide the evidence. I would be happy with even a small shred of logic or reason. Just enough to assure me that the whole groups isn’t nucking futs. Blind faith and unsubstantiated claims just aren’t good enough for me. Sadly, if we were talking about anything else, blind faith and unsubstantiated claims wouldn’t be enough for any of you either.
I wish all of you a merry christmas, and I know that you will all be good little consumers this year. We all know that’s what it’s really about, right?
(Oh, before I forget, you can call a group of atheists many things. “Correct” is a good one, or how about “intelligent”?)
Aren’t consequences and empathy part of your moral structure?
Which is the better person:
The one who does exactly what is expected of him by dictates claimed to have come from God
or
The one who can foresee consequences their actions would have and proceeds with the action that does the most good and the least harm?
I say the latter because the rules of God(s) can be corrupted and tainted to suit a purpose that we can agree is horrible (i.e. fundamentalist Islam, Warren Jeffs’ Latter Day Saints).
I don’t ignore my capability to judge the effects my actions have and will not make excuses for my actions such as life doesn’t matter. Because it does. Life is a rare opportunity and we all get one shot at it. So I’ll respect the right to happiness and freedom for others; and I will not interfere with their pursuit so long as it doesn’t interfere with my own right to happiness and freedom or someone else’s.
Even if we can’t agree on which religion is right, we can agree that there is certain conduct which damages a person’s right to autonomy and happiness. We can agree on this because the effects are observable.
There are a lot of grey areas in ethics and morality. But ask yourself: is it possible to use reason to arrive at the conclusion that some things are bad and some things are good? As an analogy: Is it possible to use another type of measurement to arrive at the same distance? You may not be familiar with the units of measurement, but if the correlation is at least consistent, then you should at least conclude that they are measuring the same thing.
What to call a collection of Atheists?
A Sanity of course.
Dave
I’m an atheist. The basis of my morality is the Golden Rule (which predates Christianity by thousands of years) and altruism. The basis of many Christians’ morality is fear of Hell. A small child doesn’t steal cookies because she knows Mommy will paddle her bottom if she’s caught. Fear of God paddling your bottom for all eternity is a child’s reasoning. Doing what’s right because it’s right is what an adult does.
Nice bunch of strawmen, guys. Read much?
So, your saying:
None of the billions of SE Asians have morals or disapprove of murder.
If it weren’t for the xtian threat of hell, you’d be a criminal right now
Anytime a group of people form, it’s automatically a religion
It’s better to regurgitate a bunch of false tropes regarding biological science than to actually learn. Knowledge is bad!
Christian communists don’t exist because all xtians, worldwide, also share the same political beliefs
Before Saul invented the xtain religion, civilization, for thousands of years, had no laws or morality
Modern law is based on the (first) 10 commandments
Miss Nonbeliever – Did you know that scientists have calculated that the Universe is so precisely tuned that if it were created with the addition or subtraction of matter weighing the same as one dime, it could not exist? Now, tell me how that happened without some intelligence behind it?
It didn’t, Jesus Christ is the Creator of the Universe. Now that’s something awesome to think about. The same creator became man and let himself be killed a brutal death to pay for my sins! Would I have done that for me. No way! But Jesus loves me and you so much that he did it! And all we are asked to do to become one of his is believe in him. That’s it! No works, no being good, we bring nothing to the relationship except faith, which God gives us through the gift of the Holy Spirit. Now that is truly the most awesome thing ever!
Many of the comments here display an almost unbelievable ignorance about atheism and atheists. Look folks, it’s simple: Atheists merely think that based on the evidence there are no supernatural entities or phenomena. No elves, no psychics, no troll, fairies or god(s).
All of you know what it’s like to be atheists. Assuming you are christian, you don’t believe in Allah, Zeus, Thor, Janus etc. The same reasons you think it is farcical for someone to believe in Zeus, atheists think it is also farcical to believe in Jesus.
As for morality, atheists are arguably more ethical than the religious. The most secular countriesd in the world have the lowest crime rates: Sweden, Denmark, Norway. The US with a very high percentage of christians is the most violent society in the world (in terms of murders per capita). The US has more of its population in prison than anywhere except perhaps China (difficult to get numbers).
What do you call a group of atheists and a group of Christians who get together?
An argument.
“Yes, I agree with that. Atheists present facts while Christians present unsubstantiated claims and expect others to simply believe.”
Facts? so now the THEORY of evolution is “fact”? So I guess when Darwin calls Africans “savages”, that too is a fact and since you obviously consider everything in his THEORY to be fact, you are a RACIST! Right? Seems logical to me.
“When the young Charles Darwin landed on the shores of Tierra del Fuego in 1832, he was overwhelmed: nothing had prepared him for the sight of what he called ‘an untamed savage’. The shock he felt, repeatedly recalled in later years, definitively shaped his theory of evolution.”
I thought it was only knuckle dragging redneck church goers who were racists? I thought enlightened people like you weren’t capable of being “racist”.
There are certainly holes in his theory but you ignore them just as much as the people you just said use unsubstantiated claims like…. if man evolved from apes, why are there still apes (and “savages”)?
Once again, wtf is the difference between organized group A saying their “facts” are the only “facts” and organized group B saying the exact same thing about theirs? (while putting up billboards to call group A crazy)
Geez, atheists don’t get satire do they? Then again I guess there’s a lot of things they don’t get, demanding 100% scientific proof of everything like they do.
Doesn’t matter what you call them, some will find reason to take offense.
As to reason, perhaps Brad Stine put is best, “Which one is more rational, a man who beleives in a God he cannot see or a man who is offended by a God he doesn’t believe in?”
“None of the billions of SE Asians have morals or disapprove of murder.”
So….you’re saying billions of SE Asians are all atheists?
I can understand you people hating religion but why are you fixated on Christians when the 2nd largest religion is the one that wants to kill you? Could it be that you’re afraid to put up billboards putting down Muslims because they might come and cut your head of? If Christians were as bad as you like to claim, you’d be afraid of them too.
Ah yes, the old “Evolution is Just a Theory! (TM)” routine.
Plate tectonics is a theory. Gravity is a theory. In science-speak, “theory” denotes “a hypothesis that is extremely robust and very well-supported by observed and experimental data, and which allows us to make remarkably accurate predictions about the world.” Darwin was assuredly a racist, just like many of his contemporaries, but that doesn’t make his observations of flora and fauna any less accurate, nor does it make his initial hypothesis any less useful for subsequent generations of scientists. If we excluded from consideration the work of any scientist who held racist or sexist views, we’d have a pretty narrow body of work to build on. Of course, religion can’t claim the high moral ground here, after being used for hundreds of years (with excellent textual justification) to justify slavery, Jim Crow, and the oppression of women.
If I, as an atheist, lived in a Muslim country, I’d be worried about Muslims. But I live in the US, a Christian country, and Christians do scare me sometimes – especially the ones that believe that I’m incapable of morality since I don’t believe in God. Christians who maintain that the only thing stopping them from immoral behavior is their fear of hell are especially unnerving, because it implies that, should they ever decide that god does not exist, or convince themselves that god isn’t watching, or that god approves of this or that immoral behavior (as George Tiller’s murderer did), there’d be nothing stopping them from going out and hurting a bunch of people.
Jeez, where do these people get the time to write all of that stuff, Jimmy? Goodness, just look at what that one guy in response to me. Is unemployment that bad?
Hey, John, perhaps I will argue with you in more details when I have more time since you wrote an e-novel, but I can say your arrogance is quite encouraging. “The masses”? Really, pal? I’m not sure if it’s Christian to say this (It seems you’re the expert), but you really shouldn’t be such a clod.
Just understand that when a man is both a follower of a mindless, bloody religion and inadequately well-versed to argue his points, he finds it silly to argue with someone of your esteemed mental stature.
Wow. The smug, angry, humorless atheists really taught us crazy fundamentalists.
Atheii?
1.
a coherent group of general propositions used as principles of explanation for a class of phenomena: Einstein’s theory of relativity.
2.
a proposed explanation whose status is still conjectural, in contrast to well-established propositions that are regarded as reporting matters of actual fact.
3.
Mathematics . a body of principles, theorems, or the like, belonging to one subject: number theory.
4.
the branch of a science or art that deals with its principles or methods, as distinguished from its practice: music theory.
5.
a particular conception or view of something to be done or of the method of doing it; a system of rules or principles.
6.
contemplation or speculation.
7.
guess or conjecture.
Gee “Sally”, your definition doesn’t seem to be there.
Don’t know-it-all d0uche bags like you always whine about hypocrisy?
George Tiller, America’s most notorious abortionist. By his own count, he has performed over sixty-thousand abortions was killed at C H U R C H. That would make him a “Christian” as far as he was concerned, not to rational people. You have no problem with someone who brags about killing 60,000 babies but you cite him being killed as an example of what “bad” Christians might do? Let’s just say that IF there’s a hell (it’s a theory after all) the guy who killed him isn’t the who’s there now.
I’ve never in my life met or heard of a person who would say the “only thing stopping them from immoral behavior is their fear of hell” can you name one? Didn’t think so.
Here’s the rub about he whole atheist vs Christian thing. I don’t care what exactly people believe, I simply want the freedom to believe as I see fit. I also get cranky when people try to change my holidays into something that appeals to them. If they want to celebrated a holiday then they should respect the belief of those who adhere to the tenets of the holiday. After all most Christians don’t celebrate Rahmadan or Yom Kippur, most white people don’t celebrate Kwansa.
If you don’t like Christmas, if it offends you. Don’t celebrate it. Ignore it. Pretend it doesn’t exist. Create a different holiday, something about which you have strong feelings.
Worship science, man, dinosaurs or the earth, just please leave me alone to worship as I desire. If we could all do that this would be a much better world and a much better country.
I’m just waiting on Harvey to chime in. When he does…
Valkyrie607 said: “Hurting people is wrong. Killing people hurts them, and their friends and family. If you need god leaning over your shoulder to continually remind you that hurting other people is wrong, then you really have no business criticizing atheists for their lack of morality.” But, why is it wrong? Because you “feel” it to be so? Evolution rewards nothing but the survival of specific genes – killing others, taking their resources and breeding indiscriminately to fill as much of the available eco-niche as possible is success in the natural world. We are all just animals, evolved by purest chance. Morality has no place in nature – just watch a cat playing with an injured mouse some time. The cat who enjoys hunting enough to “play” at it will be more likely to have the skills necessary to catch prey when it matters, thereby increasing its likelihood of surviving to breeding age, when its skills will also increase the likelihood of its offspring’s survival. The mouse’s suffering is simply irrelevant. Why should human animals be held to a higher standard? Indulging your personal feelings of weakness or empathy is not morality – it just makes you marginally less fit to survive, if pitted against someone who understands that an animal does what is best for itself and its offspring, period. If one might get caught and punished, then one refrains from pillage and murder. If one can get away with it, however, one is rewarded in the only way possible for animals: Increased representation of one’s genetic heritage. Killing the men and raping their women is nature’s way, and just because you won’t properly defend your own self-interest because of your “feelings” doesn’t make it morally wrong for someone else to do it, in a godless world. “Moral” rules are not rational when informing individual decisions, even though they may help a group to survive as a whole. Nature is amoral. Whatever succeeds, is right. And that is why atheists are feared – we can’t count on all of them being sissies.
In my world, there is room for everyone here except for those who insult. Some of my good friends are Christians, some are atheists and some are agnostics. In general, I’m interested in all their viewpoints, and in particular, in the ones who ask questions.
So, I shall ask a question that has been on my mind for decades. If there is a moral God, would he not want his intelligent creations to be able to understand – and derive from first principles (and apply in daily life) the tenets of morality?
There seem to be several possible answers to this question.
If your answer is yes – and if you’re right – then it seems to me that God is The Ultimate Philosopher and we are his students. “And grasp the mind of God?” you ask? Why not? A true “Yes” answer here implies no blasphemy.
If your answer is no – and if you’re right – then I ask further: what does God need with us? He should be just as happy with plain rocks as with intelligent beings.
If it turns out there is no God, the problem of defining right and wrong for intelligent human beings living together still remains. In that case, we’re on our own to figure it out.
Case-in-point: Crabby, your argument lacks the case of intelligent, complex human beings living face-to-face with each other in an “eat or be eaten” natural world. Nature has very few examples of the demands that complex intelligence places on a species. But we ARE that species. Should I eat you? Should I just kill you now and not eat you? Should I observe you? Should I befriend you? Test your strength? Perhaps I should push you around for a while and see how you react? Should I somehow determine if you might be of use to me? Does it matter if I could/should be of use to you? How SHOULD I decide how to interact with you? And you with me? That is the “moral question” that we can not escape asking ourselves. Exactly why should we cooperate with each other? Why have we chosen to live together as a “civilization” of human beings with a set of rules we call “morality?” Whether your answer is God or perhaps claiming it’s “the nature of intelligence” (like some ’emergent property’), your answer doesn’t affect the outcome. We can not escape the need to agree on the rules by which we live.
Basil – I’ve got WAY too much to say to chime in here. I took it to my own blog:
http://badexample2.blogspot.com/2010/11/stop-it-youre-giving-us-bad-name.html
Frank – You’ll want to click that link, because I respond to your comment at the end.
NO MO BAMA spewed:
> Facts? so now the THEORY of evolution is “fact”?
Your pig-ignorant “knowledge” of science is predictably consistent with your politics. You’re part of the problem in this country, bucko. Go read a book.
Darwin was progressive by the standards of his day. Of course, someone like you, who only deals in STRAW arguments, wouldn’t dare to evaluate a person’s writings in a contextually-relevant way. Darwin also wrote passionately against slavery. Anyway, even if he was a child-molesting Martian, that wouldn’t make him either wrong, or right, about evolution. Your clumsy ad hom “argument” is an insult.
Furthermore, your (mis)use of the word “theory” betrays your ignorance about what a scientific theory is. Listen up: Evolution occurs. That is a FACT. The Theory of Evolution attempts to explain the how and why. Theories are works in progress, accepted as valid until such day as they are disproven or replaced with a more accurate and valid model. For example, compare the Newtownian theory of gravity, which stood up for centuries (even though Newton knew it was wrong) until Einstein came along. Either way, gravity is a very real phenomenon, regardless of how we attempt to explain it. And so it is with evolution. The theory explains the facts. That’s what a theory IS. The scientific use of the word is not the same as the colloquial use of the word, which is generally synonymous with the concept of the “educated guess”.
#44 (12:09am) through #54 (5:49am),
Don’t angry atheists ever sleep?
heh, I should talk! Good night!
# Jesus Christ says:
November 13th, 2010 at 3:05 am
My misuse of the word theory? I simply pointed out that it’s called a theory for a reason, it’s unprovable.
The definition of the WORD is right up there ^^^^^
For such “smart” people, you sure have a hard time seeing the obvious point, you people call anyone who disagree with you things like “racist” (the ONLY reason we hate Obama is because we’re racist). I can picture someone like you saying that and yet you glorify a flaming racist in order to put down several billion people in the world. Whether or not he was “against slavery” or not, Darwin’s THEORY said that the existence on INFERIOR people PROVED his THEORY!
Since you so strongly AGREE with that, YOU must be a RACIST, that’s a very logical THEORY that proves a FACT Mr. “Science!”
You and your buddy “Sally” said it doesn’t matter if someone’s a racist as long as their science! is wonderful.
A: how does “knowing” that evolution is right or wrong actually help the world and B: tell that to the Jews that met Josef Mengele. I’m sure some of his “work” benefited the world MORE than Darwin’s so I assume you have no problem with him either, right? Oh that’s right, you’re a liberal puke, you hate Jews too.
And what do you people do, stay up till 3am googling “atheist” and run to defend it whenever it’s mentioned, even on a site like this? wow, and you say religious people have no life.
Oh, now I get it. He’s an atheist yet his user name is “Jesus Christ”! Oh man that’s funny on so many levels.
now……give it to Daddy………..
Why do all liberal ideas turn into a religious belief at some point? If all these jerks went to church we never would have had to sit through the AGW thingy.
Now they’re a proselytizing atheist religion to boot. Who are these anti-holiday sorts…also known as fun killers. Why do they become what they most hate? Which one of these atheist is up for a crucifixion and if after 3 days that person doesn’t rise, we’ll keep crucifying until one of you does or until we run out of fun killers.
Corona, please check back with us when you have something to offer that’s not completely moronic.
NoMoBama: Ditto. You’re a walking catalog of canards and strawmen.
4of7: Study the following VERY CAREFULLY: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Time_zones_by_country
I don’t think Atheism or the Christian God can be proven or disproven. Atheism cannot disprove the Christian God (an all loving, all powerful being cannot be disproven), and the all loving, all powerful God does not interfere on our free will by appearing to everyone and saying “BOW AND WORSHIP ME!”. (that’s why we have to have faith in God – a hope in that which is yet unseen)
These kinds of discussions in comment threads don’t really go anywhere… unless someone is already seeking God, they will be closed to all arguments. And anyone who has a personal relationship with Jesus Christ isn’t going to be turned by an argument of the mind, when the truth is in the heart. (you can tell me my family doesn’t exist all you want – you can prove it beyond a doubt, but I still know they exist because of experience, not logic)
I think the big issue is ‘separation of church and state’. Now, technically, separation of church and state isn’t in the Constitution. (it was actually in a Thomas Jefferson letter, and isn’t law at all) But if we stopped having public education, or replaced it with a voucher system, Christians wouldn’t be so upset about the theory of evolution, and atheists wouldn’t be so upset about God. If you were allowed to choose what your children are taught – what a concept! – these discussions would not be so inflammatory.
#79 – JC,
So… you’re saying you’re not from around here?
(grumble, grumble … durn furinurs …) 😉
I don’t call them anything – I don’t believe in atheists.
Yay! Everyone put up your Festivus pole and get ready for the Airing of the Grievances!