Romney is a Mormon!
UPDATE:
BTW, I think Mormonism is pretty wacky and a blasphemous assault to Christianity, but I’d be hard pressed to come up with anything bad to say about a Mormon or anything they’ve done in recent years (unlike say, Scientology). I.e., I consider someone being a Mormon a plus… outside of the blasphemy.
Harry Reid is still a douche, though.
Well at least he’s not a JOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO.
Religious bigotry is alive and well and living in the US. Who da thunk it.
-Shhhhh!! Careful, Frank… they’ve got powers!
Besides Huckabee being a Baptist Minister I couldn’t tell you any other candidates religion. All of the Mormons I know are really conservative so at least they have that going for them.
If Romney gets to be President, I wonder how many first ladies we will have??
At least we can be reasonable sure Romney will actually get WORK done in the Oval office, and there won’t be a need for the Bimbo Patrol.
Of course if Rudy wins we may have to rename Washington D.C to Reconquesta Central.
…just like Harry Reid…hmmm…..
I’ve always been a little mystified at the vilification Mormons recieve simply for their faith. I’m a wayward Catholic, so I don’t have a dog in this hunt, but I’m pretty chagrined that in this day and age we still get kneejerk reactions to a man’s faith, WHATEVER it is. I’ve lived among Mormons for most of my life, and I say as a group they are honorable, decent, hard working people, more than many other Christians I’ve known. And here’s a little irony for all who would bring up the history of the LDS: Mitt Romney is the only major GOP candidate who has been married only once.
So, when do we get a speech from John Edwards saying that he doesn’t believe his girly-man homosexualness will pose a problem to voters.
Oh, wait, that’s just the kind of leader the Libs want, isn’t it?
I lived in Idaho Falls for a summer, once upon a time. I met many young women( I lived in Idaho Falls for a summer, once upon a time. I met many young women( < 25 years old, divorced, with one to four children) who were Mormon. They had been married right out of high school to their high school sweethearts, usually upon the recommendation of their local bishops and church elders. Then the husbands graduated college and dumped the wives and kids a few years later. That’s what I know of Mormonism, and I didn’t like it then and I don’t like it now.
Romney actually seemed human in that speech – like there’s a person in there behind the suit, slather-on suntan, and Vitalis.
Still don’t prefer the guy out to any of the other candidates (except you-know-who), largely because it still seems like he’d say anything to get elected, but this has thawed me out a bit on him.
“Still don’t prefer the guy out to any of the other candidates (except you-know-who)” = “Still don’t prefer the guy to any of the other candidates (except you-know-who)”
Preview is your friend.
Whould him giving 10% of his presidential salary be a violtion of the “church/state” seperation?
At least mormons don’t cut off your head for saying something bad about Joseph Smith.
Having grown up with many Mormons and even having a sister that converted (for several years) I don’t think that there is anything wrong with them inherantly. Yeah, they’re a little creepy but for the most part they are very honest and hard working. They have great family values too.
You know, I grew up in the Treasure Valley (though I’m in La la land now, dammit) so almost all of my friends and neighbors were Mormon, and I’ve never known any of them to be anything but nice, honest, and family-oriented people (even the so-called “Jack Mormons” who dared to drink Coke or didn’t keep a pantry stuffed with canned goods). Yeah, they’ve got some odd beliefs (the special underwear, and you know that whole “Celestial Kingdom” thing) but to be quite frank they do a better job modeling most of the so-called “Christian values” (God first, fiercely pro-family, willingness to sacrifice in order to serve others, etc.) than most Christians I know. Categorically, I lump them in with the Quakers, or the Mennonites, or the Nazarenes. A skewed theology to be sure, but good people nonetheless. Besides, I’d rather have a President who actually has a religion (e.g., Mitt or Huckabee) than one who simply gives the concept lip service in order to not alienate voters (Rudy? Rudy?)
come on Frank. a blasphemous assault to Christianity? don’t you think thats a little extreme. i’m a mormon, but still a good christian and conservative
[If you’re Christian and don’t believe in the Book of Mormon, I don’t see how you have any other option than to consider it blasphemous. It probably wasn’t polite to say, like Jews don’t usually point out how they think Jesus was full of it. -Ed.]
Harry Reid is full of piss and vinegar, so that would make him more like a used douche…
-just saying.
PaleoMedic, would you please cite your source that Huckabee has been married more than once? From what I have been able to tell, he married his wife Janet when he was 18 years old and 33 years on they’re still together (clearly, the man knows something about commitment). I know he’s from Arkansas and all, so maybe there was a child marriage or an illegitimate wedding to a cousin or something that we don’t know about but from what I can tell, he’s a one-timer.
Harry Reid is still a douche, though.
Absolutely. I do think that it would be interesting, though, if you were to run a poll for the biggest douchebag in, say, the federal government. You could do it for the entire federal government, or for just Congress, or each house of Congress individually. I’d have to do some hard thinking to decide whether, say, John Murtha is a bigger douchebag than Nancy Pelosi (well, of course, he’s bigger, but is he more of a douchebag?)
@ #17. Overlooked Huckabee, my bad. That wasn’t my point though, and I ain’t gonna bother looking stuff up.
Religious “don’t ask, don’t tell”? Its more important to be truthful than it is to be polite. Truth delayed is truth denied.
The truth will come out sooner or later – including the shocking and strange (dare I say kooky) Mormon doctrines … better it come out now than later at the convenience of Hillary.
Romney should face up to the secret underwear, blacks, etc. facts rather than hide from it and try to delay the inevitable disaster. I never liked political correctness from the libs and I really don’t like it from Romney.
come on Frank. a blasphemous assault to Christianity? don’t you think thats a little extreme. i’m a mormon, but still a good christian and conservative
#15 – Posted by: on December 6, 2007 01:12 PM
Ewwwwwwwww a Mormon!
😉
Plus every Tongan I’ve ever met was Mormon, and those guys are huge. Best to stay on their good side.
I’m with South Park on the whole Mormon thing. Yea it’s a creepy cult if you actually look at some of the wierd stuff in the Book of Mormon. (Dum Dum Dum) But at the same time most[1] of the folks are solid upstanding citizens you wouldn’t mind having for neighbors. It’s a mystery, just more proof we live in a strange world.
[1] Douchebags like Reid shouldn’t make us want to shoot em all… but can we shoot Reid. At least shoot him in the butt with rock salt? 🙂
I just spent some time at http://www.lds.org reading their doctrine pages. They preach that Jesus Christ is the Son of God, that he died on the cross for our sins, was buried, and rose from the dead.
Romans 10:9 “That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.”
Sounds pretty Christian to me. The rest of their doctrine may be way off the beam, but I think we’ll all get straightened out on our doctrine when we get to heaven. As regards the polygamy and history of racism in the church, so what. Some of my ancestors owned slaves but I can hardly be held responsible for their actions.
But that’s just me.
steadyrock as a mormon living in the Treasure Valley and for everone elses kind words thanks.
For Frank you had better watch out, now that you live in Idaho you better watch yourself if you keep it up with words like
“BTW, I think Mormonism is pretty wacky and a blasphemous assault to Christianity” you’ll find yourself tied up with a knife to your throat…wait thats someone else’s faith.
Your going to wake up some morning morning with A book of Mormon on your doorstep and…green jello salad… wait give me a sec…you’ll have pray’s and missionarys knocking on…. ok so i don’t really know what will happen but you had better watch it, unless you like green jello salad in which this might encourge you…anways thanks steadyrock and everone else for you kind words.
p.s. Frank don’t you live in the Valley now? Boise if i read it correctly.
Frank better watch out…us LDS make up 25% of the state of Idaho. He might have more than one green jello salads on his doorstep if he keeps it up.
Roy, the Idaho Mormon guy
“Christ is the Son of God” Change that to a Son of God. Mormons also believe that Lucifer is a son of God and the spirit brother of Jesus. And that Jesus was literally begotten by God who came down to Earth in the flesh to have sex with Mary. And that Jesus had multiple wives. And that Jesus made a trip to South America to visit the lost tribe of Israel who had floated there in barrels, etc.
well, I agree that as long as he is moral, lives a moral life, and makes responsible governmental decisions that Mitt’s religion shouldn’t have any effect on whether or not he should be president, any more than Kennedey’s Catholicism did.
In regards to the question whether or not him tithing 10% of his salary would violate church and state separation, the answer would be no–no more than you putting a buck in the collection plate would. Its his salary at that point and no longer your taxes.
But as far as things the Mormons have done that might be questionable, there is this (recency questionable):
Mountain Meadow Massacre
if the html doesn’t come out right, I apologize in advance.
I think this has all been an act inspired by the “don’t tase me, bro” episode.
oo oo you looked at me funny, you must hate my religion. If you didn’t hate my religion you would believe that I’ve changed all my political positions for realsies!
Honestly, Mitt Romney should have just replaced his speech with this video. Any of you remember this? This song was actually all over the top 40 stations in the Treasure Valley when I was in junior high. That’s how Mormon your new hometown is, Frank. 😉
“Green Jello Salad with shredded carrots? Mmmm, my favorite!”
GrannyBoo,
please go read some more. specifically about blood atonement. the blood of Christ is insufficient to cover some sins? that’s not Christian. period.
they do make it pretty on their web site, though, don’t they. and their temples are nice and clean. white washed looking… like tombs…
white washed tombs… didn’t Jesus say something about those once?
look. i’m not trying to be a hater, now… but when people try to mix their crazy ideas up with the Word of God, i tend to get kinda testy…
Watch out Frank– from the comments made so far– a number of your readers are LDS and we ARE your neighbors here, in the Treasure Valley. Let the jello flinging commence…
“Jesus said love everyone, treat them kindly too, when your heart is filled with love, other’s will love you.”
Here’s what’s got me so riled up about this: the libtard media are lambasting a man for his religious beliefs. And instead of rushing to his defense, the evangelicals and all the others are nodding in agreement and saying,”yeah them Mormons are just a bunch of weirdos with stupid undershorts.” Mormons are not Branch Davidians, or Scientologists, or Jim Jonesian Kool-Aid drinkers. You who condemn LDS are engaging in the very thing you endure from the Left all the time! Un-frickin’-believable!
Mormons don’t go around cutting off heads and rioting when you say something bad about them. Given that, I can deal with anything else they might believe, as long as that belief doesn’t entail raising taxes or taking away my gun.
“And that Jesus was literally begotten by God who came down to Earth in the flesh to have sex with Mary. And that Jesus had multiple wives.”
No, we don’t believe God came down in person to get Mary pregnant. Nor is is church doctrine that Jesus had many wives. Get your facts straight man.
PaleoMedic,
not to miss your point entirely, you’re only partly right.
sure, there are those bashing mitt for being mormon, and that does play out as hypocritcal (honestly people, we should be bashing him for being a RINO)
there are also those of us who are, however unsuccessfully, trying to make sure mitt, his supporters, and even the drive by media, aren’t successful in trying to confuse mormonism with christianity.
just ’cause you have a guy named “jesus” in your religion don’t make it the same thing. otherwise we’d all worship mexico…
bill clinton called himself a southern baptist. (snicker) i’m a southern baptist. i’d vote for romney over clinton every day of the week (and twice on sunday).
but mormonism is not christianity, and i will do my best to correct anyone who claims otherwise. if that puts me in the same camp with the libtard media on this, well… thank God i’ve got a good shower at home…
Hi, long time lurker here. Just had to weigh in. Yes, Harry Reid IS a douche.
I know this is a humor blog…but there is nothing funny about the Mormons! They claim to be Christians…they aren’t and I am and it irritates me! I’m not prepared to go into the many reasons but if you care you can find the reasons! It comes down to the basic reason that separates all other religions from Christianity…works vs. grace! I’m saved based upon what Jesus did at the cross…period! Mormons are working out their salvation and Paul was pretty clear about this theology in Romans and Galatians…Cheers and God Bless!
If you find another religion anywhere in the world…at anytime…that teaches Grace…buy it! You won’t outside Christianity…I challenge you to try!
[To be honest, I’m not sure I ever understood the “Works Versus Grace” debate, and a lot of that seems silly. -Ed.]
Shane,
You assert that Mormonism is not Christianity. I frankly don’t care why you choose to believe this. My point is that it distresses me that once again religion taints the election process. It’s all just another pissing match that will yield nothing positive.
#38 – Posted by: ussjimmycarter on December 6, 2007 06:00 PM
Would it bother you if Bob Marley ran for President? (other than the whole being a corpse thing)
Lessee…
Hmm.. You’re Jewish? Convert or die! (Catholic inquisitors)
Hmm.. You’re Catholic? Convert or die! (Church of England/Anglican, and by transference, Episcopal)
Hmm… You’re not Muslim? Convert, and die anyway (our favorite jihadis)
Hmm… You’re religion isn’t sanctioned by the King/Queen/whatever theology is in the majority (most of Europe)
Hmm… You’re LDS? Get out or die (the U.S. circa 1825-1830)!
Hmm… You’re Buddhist, Hindu? You don’t have to convert, but you’re going to die and go to Hell anyway (Southern Baptist)
Did I leave anyone one out? Anybody not feel picked on, yet? Anyone feel like I haven’t handed out enough religious righteousness?
I have an idea. Why don’t we go to this new place, like, overseas, and call it AMERICA for whatever reason (I just like the sound of it), and enjoy freedom of religion. And, later on, we’ll codify it in a document called the Constitution and make it a law that the government won’t establish a state religion, and you can continue to worship without fear of prejudice.
Sad, peoples, sad. I see y’all holding up the Constitution in other arguments as a sacred document (as it should be). Yet here we are, sounding just like the religious bigots of 1960, wondering if John Kennedy was going to check every presidential decision with the Pope.
I have a feeling that Mitt Romney would check his policies with Gorden Hinckley about as often as Fred Thompson would his with Sam Waterston. Which is to say, far, far less than Hill would with Bill.
And to think my mother left Scotland to come here because she couldn’t get into a decent med school because she’s Catholic…
Specter, you left out the athiests, satanists, Gorbots (global warmers) and pagans.
And to think you came to a humor site for serious religious tolerance…
I suppose it’s too late to suggest that we are doing exactly what the liberals expect us to do. As the “religious bigots on the right,” it is assumed that we will let this issue tear us to pieces.
It is very obvious that some Christians have issues with Mormonism… but I can assure you that this is not the time for us on the correct side of politics to express these issues.
It is quite simple: if you think Romney’s religion will play a negative part in his potential presidency, then you should not vote for him. If you don’t, then you should evaluate him on the issues (you know, the ones he keeps flipping on).
I, for one, am not ready to give those leftist idiots one single ounce of ammunition for their pathetic cause. If I choose to vote for or against Romney, it will be for everything EXCEPT his religion.
By the way, I am a practicing (and quite fanatical) Catholic… in case that matters.
I agree wholeheartedly with everyone who has posted that, as conservatives, we ought to hang together and not quibble about a candidate’s religion. It should be enough to believe in limited government and protecting our freedoms, especially those enumerated in the bill of rights. Those are the real issues. (Have we fielded a candidate who agrees with that?)
I only posted my mealy mouthed defense of LDS ’cause Frank accused them of blasphemy and I disagreed. (I know I have more research to do.)
Now, then, as to what I do know about the whole grace v. works thing: the atonement of my Savior is what, by the grace of God, offers me salvation. As a follower of Christ, “created in Christ Jesus to do good works” (Ephesians 2:10), I should strive to do His will and not sin– but that is impossible. No one can live perfectly, and, therefore, it is impossible to reach Heaven by works alone. Read the 7th chapter of the book of Romans for the definitive … no, wait, read the 6th chapter, too. And the 8th. Yes, Romans 6, 7, and 8. And 1st Corinthians chapter 1 for a nice discussion of how what the world sees as foolishness being the power of God to those who believe.
There will be a quiz
I will have no problem voting for Romney if he is the Republican nominee and would prefer Romney to Huckabee. Huckabee is probably closest to my theological beliefs of the big 5 republican candidates, but is last on my list for who to vote for.
I have known a decent number of Mormons and I got along fine with them. But Mormonism is a blasphamous assault on Chrisitianity and I am not going to pretend otherwise to help win an election. Ask me to chose between my God and my political party and the party will lose each time.
“No, we don’t believe God came down in person to get Mary pregnant. Nor is is church doctrine that Jesus had many wives.”
Both of those doctrines come straight from the mouths of Mormon apostles and prophets like Bruce McConkie and Orson Hyde, which under the theology of the Mormon church carry the same authority as if they were uttered by St. Paul or other biblical writers. And note that he did not deny the Mormon belief that God has a human body and that Lucifer is the son of God and brother of Jesus. And I am not even going to get into the personal planet that you get to populate when you die, that human beings can become exalted gods, posthumous baptism, or having to get married to get into heaven, but these are not the minor theological differences like predestination that seperate most Christian denominations.
And Harry Reid is a douche, but I like Orin Hatch for the most part.
Nah, Robert… but even with humor, I think we might want to take a second or two to back up and recognize the foundations behind the issues we satirize and lampoon.
IMHO is, perhaps, the ultra plus ultra of participative conservative humor/satire sites, at least in my opinion. Still, I think we shouldn’t become caricatures of ourselves, and feed into the liberal preconception.
On that note, a nun, a rabbi and an imam walk into a bar…
I am a mormon. I enjoy reading the Book of Mormon, as well as the Bible. I have many good friends (here in Salt Lake City) who are not mormons. We get along very well, and we respect each other’s beliefs. I own several guns. I have taught and continue to teach my children about guns. My 5 year old daughter can probably outshoot a good portion of the readers here. (Obviously not the fanatics. And be real, she is 5, how well can she hold the gun??) I believe that the only gun control this country should have is that the citizens should be taught how to control their own guns! Believe what you want, let me believe what I want. That is a freedom granted to us by the consitution. Mess with my freedoms, mess with my families freedoms, mess with the freedoms of my country (even Frank’s freedom to call me a blasphemous mormon), you had better be prepared for war. I am, and so are all the members of my very large, well armed, extended family. (None of us are polygamists.) Do I support the fighting going on in Iraq, Afghanistan, and other places? No. But those brave men and women, who are following orders, serving OUR country despite the jerks leading our country, I support them 100%! I don’t care what your religion is, do you believe in a supreme being or not? I don’t care. We are all Americans! Members of the greatest nation in the world. (Yes we have problems, so what!) I will vote for the candidates I feel will do everything they can to preserve them.
Frank, go ahead, call me a blasphemous non-christian! That is your right! Just remember, it is my right, and every other mormon (everyone who is not a mormon you can do what you want as well) to disagree with you, or even agree. 🙂
[Uh… why would I forget? -Ed.]
Specter, your tone sounded cereal and I do understand your point. Then again, if we don’t make fun of our own and silence the critics, we become caricatures of the left. Then we’d be douchebags too.
As a heathen, I don’t have a problem with Mormonism. Romney would never have a cigar/blue dress scandal and his wife is a much better public speaker than he is. I don’t buy his (and Huc-Kaboom’s) recent conversion to conservatism and I wouldn’t buy a used car from either of them.
Now lets get back to the green Jell-O salad slinging, already in progress.
A’ight, Robert! Can I also have some frog-eye salad and funeral potatoes?
I value the satire and caricature, as well. My only concern was that we were all straying down that libtard-painted, well-intentioned path they’d dearly love to flay us on.
I don’t buy the recent conservative conversions, either, but they sure beat the alternatives on the other side of the aisle.
Amen!
Frank, not meaning you would forget, I was on my soap box and thought I would be a little silly as I stepped off.
BTW – Welcome to this side of the country. Don’t be too hard on your new neighbors bringing you green jello with carrot shavings. They mean well. 🙂
Guinness,
“At least mormons don’t cut off your head for saying something bad about Joseph Smith.”
Just don’t get caught calling a Teddy Bear “Smitty”!!
As far as I’m concerned, anybody who’s not a papist is a heretic and an enemy of the church, so I don’t have any specific feelings on Mormons.
On the other hand, according to South Park, all Mormons go to heaven. You gotta admit it’s pretty hard to argue with that.
pete the elder
“Both of those doctrines come straight from the mouths of Mormon apostles and prophets like Bruce McConkie and Orson Hyde, which under the theology of the Mormon church carry the same authority as if they were uttered by St. Paul or other biblical writers.”
I dispute that that was McConkie’s meaning (he again called Mary a virgin without any hedging within paragraphs), and the theories of individual apostles does not automatically carry the same weight as the Bible. The whole Twelve and the First Presidency and the general membership have to do so first. I’ll concede it carries weight, but not Bible weight.
“And note that he did not deny the Mormon belief that God has a human body and that Lucifer is the son of God and brother of Jesus. And I am not even going to get into the personal planet that you get to populate when you die, that human beings can become exalted gods, posthumous baptism, or having to get married to get into heaven, but these are not the minor theological differences like predestination that seperate most Christian denominations.”
I get confused when types like you continually bring up the Satan as brother idea as something especially weird. That idea, and pretty much all these supposedly beyond weird ideas stem from one doctrine – that we are ALL children of God. Christ said so himself: John 20:17 “I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and to my God, and your God” among other points. If God is MY Father the same way He’s Christ’s Father, doesn’t that make us brothers? If I, as a sinner, am still Christ’s brother, doesn’t that make the idea that Satan is also His brother more plausible? If I’m a child of God, what do I “grow up” to be? If Christ inherits all that the Father has, and believers are to be joint-heirs with Christ, (Romans 8:16-17, also again saying we’re God’s children) just what exactly are we inheriting? Could it be, I don’t know, the Universe? Worlds without end? And if God is our Father, doesn’t it stand to reason that there is a Mother? Were there ever children without both? And if God has a wife, maybe to really reach our potential we must be married as well (and it’s marriage to be exalted, not to get into heaven, there’s a difference).
Do you see how much can flow from a single, Biblical, doctrine of God as Father? Just one step at a time, and everything you list as a litany of weird all become simply aspects and consequences of taking a few New Testament verses literally. And would you mind pointing out, just which one of them renders Mormonism un-Christian? Why? Just because it’s weird isn’t a good answer.
“And would you mind pointing out, just which one of them renders Mormonism un-Christian? Why? Just because it’s weird isn’t a good answer.”
Uh, the part about us getting to become gods who go to populate our own planets seems pretty unchristian to me becuase it puts us at the same level as God. The part about Lucifer being a son of God and not a fallen angel is pretty unchristian since Jesus says he is the only begotten son of the father. See John 3:16.
“we are ALL children of God”
Specifically read John 8:44 where Jesus says that not all of us are children of God, but some are chrildren of the devil. You are inferring things that directly contradict the literal teachings of Jesus.
“And if God is our Father, doesn’t it stand to reason that there is a Mother?”
No.
“And if God has a wife, maybe to really reach our potential we must be married as well”
I think if god had a wife he would have mentioned it at some point in the bible. And again you are inferring things that directly contradict the Bible. Anyone who doubts how unchristian the view is that we need to get married to reach our potentional needs to read 1 corinthians 7 all the way through. If anything that chapter argues that marraige can be a stumbling block for those trying to serve god and that we should strive to stay single, but it is permissable to get married if you really want to.
Frank feel free to stop this at any point.
The fact is whether pete, frank or anyone else disagrees it doesn’t matter. In order to be a “Christian” you have to believe in Jesus Christ. In order it believe in Him, you have to know Him. Unless you have a special conduit to heaven the only way to know Him is through prayer and scripture study. I dare you to find a religion that encourages it’s followers to be more educated in the scriptures, ALL of them then Mormons.
We are encouraged to obey ALL of the commandments, even the adultery one, most of us try never to use the Lords name in vain, we read scriptures once a day, bless our meals, have family prayer morning and evening as well as personal prayer. We pay tithing as well as offerings because as Jesus said the “poor will always be with us”. This is not all by a long shot. We believe that “faith without works is dead”.
I have enjoyed this blog for several years and have not seen fit to try to convert, manipulate or push my religious beliefs on others. Nor have I made an issue of others “weird” religious beliefs. I guess it’s not only democrats who believe tolerance is only reserved for those they anoint.
Imagine my surprise. Maybe conservatives aren’t really that much different. Maybe they’re just closet liberals at heart.
i have a bigger problem with him being from massive2shits.
but seriously, what is the mormon perspective of lucifer?
what do you mean jake ace? about the lucifer part not the mass. part we all get that.
I’ll give Mitt being Christian. And I’ll give that the Mormons have LOADS of non-mainstream Christian beliefs and practices.
I don’t worry about that so much as I worry about Mitt deciding what to do based on some warm fuzzy feeling he gets instead of going with the most prudent choice, and trusting that god will work it out for him because he felt good about it.
I’m pretty sure the Protestant faiths disagree on doctrine…or else why be separate in the first place. And I’m also sure they’ve called each other names over the differences. And used terms like blasphemy when name-calling. Plus I suppose Catholics don’t like the mocking of priest’s collars and nun’s robes and none of the Christians like the many ways the cross is used and abused……………………………….Nope didn’t cheer me up. I think I’ll just avoid this site and hogonice until the election’sover. I can take it from liberals but not from y’all.
what do you mean, what do i mean? don’t get mad at me, bob. it’s a simple question, and if i had the answer i wouldn’t have asked it.
i heard that mormons have a unique perspective of lucifer, and i was wondering if there was anyone among the specific faithful who would care to enlighten the rest of us. did lucifer guide us to our destiny by convincing us to partake of the fruit of the knowledge of good and evil? did he do us a favor or did he screw us over?
some people think that without lucifer we would be as dumb as the animals, never contemplating marriage vs. adultery, or private property vs. survival of the most brutal. or drug abuse and orgies vs. responsible parenthood.
guess what the luciferians prefer. i’m guessing blondes, but i don’t know no nothin.
I wasn’t mad Jake Ace I just didn’t understand your question. I have no problem with honest questions. Sadly this medium doesn’t allow for me to truly judge if are honestly curious or have other intentions but as this is our first interaction I will give you benefit of the doubt and answer your questions as such. As you can see I am long winded in so feel free to email me for more details on this or any other questions.
As far as your point there is a couple takes on this point but no official stand. Also I think this is one of those ideas or items that really don’t matter to our salvation. We should really focus on the basic ideas of the gospel and not the fringe idea’s that are so fun to discuss. Anyways back to the question.
One stance claims that he did play an important role in our future in that he did trick eve into eating the fruit which allowed for us to live as we are. I think this is short sighted because this would require that God would plan and require us to sin or at least disobey him. This logic or lack there of would have us think that God is imperfect and that fruit I.E. knowledge, was inherently evil. I think that there was a better way for us to gain knowledge and a more reasonable idea would be that at some point God would have allowed Adam and Eve to partake, much like a parent allowing a child to drive when they are mature and better able to deal with the responsibility. One thing you should note with both idea’s is at no point would you ever say that Lucifer/the devil was guiding us or in anyway a good or useful influence on Adam and Eve. Also please note for some people that the forbidden fruit in LDS beliefs is not sex or anything other then a fruit. If the fruit was a allegory for something else isn’t made clear in Official church doctrine.
I hope this helped with your question.
I have a sliiight bias against Mormons. I used to work with one…he kept trying to convert me, over and over. Even gave me a book of Mormon..which promptly went behind the passenger seat in my truck. Until I gave it to someone who wanted to pick it apart..and my truck’s seat thoroughly bent the hell out of that thing.
Jake Ace if your still around, Got this from LDS.org (this is the official LDS position on Lucifer):
GUIDE TO THE SCRIPTURES
LUCIFER
See also Antichrist; Destroyer; Devil; Hell; Sons of Perdition
The name means the Shining One or Lightbearer. He is also known as the Son of the Morning. Lucifer was a spirit son of Heavenly Father and led the rebellion in the premortal life. The name Lucifer appears only once in the Bible (Isa. 14: 12). Latter-day revelation gives more detail on Lucifer’s fall (D&C 76: 25-29).
Lucifer fell in the premortal existence, Isa. 14: 12 (Luke 10: 18; 2 Ne. 24: 12). After his fall he became Satan and the devil, D&C 76: 25-29 (Moses 4: 1-4).
References
1. Isa. 14: 12
12 How art thou afallen from bheaven, O cLucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the dnations!
2. Luke 10: 18
18 And he said unto them, I beheld aSatan as lightning fall from heaven.
3. 2 Ne. 24: 12
12 aHow art thou fallen from heaven, O bLucifer, son of the morning! Art thou cut down to the ground, which did weaken the nations!
4. D&C 76: 25-29
25 And this we saw also, and bear record, that an aangel of God who was in authority in the presence of God, who brebelled against the Only Begotten cSon whom the Father dloved and who was in the bosom of the Father, was thrust down from the presence of God and the Son,
26 And was called aPerdition, for the heavens bwept over him–he was cLucifer, a son of the morning.
27 And we beheld, and lo, he is afallen! is fallen, even a son of the morning!
28 And while we were yet in the Spirit, the Lord commanded us that we should write the vision; for we beheld Satan, that old aserpent, even the bdevil, who rebelled against God, and sought to take the kingdom of our cGod and his Christ–
29 Wherefore, he maketh awar with the saints of God, and encompasseth them round about.
5. Moses 4: 1-4
1 AND I, the aLord God, spake unto Moses, saying: That bSatan, whom thou hast commanded in the name of mine Only Begotten, is the same which was from the cbeginning, and he came before me, saying–Behold, here am I, send me, I will be thy son, and I will dredeem all mankind, that one soul shall not be lost, and surely eI will do it; wherefore fgive me thine honor.
2 But, behold, my Beloved aSon, which was my Beloved and bChosen from the beginning, said unto me–cFather, thy dwill be done, and the eglory be thine forever.
3 Wherefore, because that aSatan brebelled against me, and sought to destroy the cagency of man, which I, the Lord God, had given him, and also, that I should give unto him mine own power; by the power of mine Only Begotten, I caused that he should be dcast down;
4 And he became aSatan, yea, even the bdevil, the father of all clies, to ddeceive and to blind men, and to lead them ecaptive at his will, even as many as would not fhearken unto my voice.
Sorry, the above post is a bit hard to read.
GUIDE TO THE SCRIPTURES
LUCIFER
See also Antichrist; Destroyer; Devil; Hell; Sons of Perdition
The name means the Shining One or Lightbearer. He is also known as the Son of the Morning. Lucifer was a spirit son of Heavenly Father and led the rebellion in the premortal life. The name Lucifer appears only once in the Bible (Isa. 14: 12). Latter-day revelation gives more detail on Lucifer’s fall (D&C 76: 25-29).
Lucifer fell in the premortal existence, Isa. 14: 12 (Luke 10: 18; 2 Ne. 24: 12). After his fall he became Satan and the devil, D&C 76: 25-29 (Moses 4: 1-4).
References
1. Isa. 14: 12
12 How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations!
2. Luke 10: 18
18 And he said unto them, I beheld Satan as lightning fall from heaven.
3. 2 Ne. 24: 12
12 How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! Art thou cut down to the ground, which did weaken the nations!
4. D&C 76: 25-29
25 And this we saw also, and bear record, that an angel of God who was in authority in the presence of God, who rebelled against the Only Begotten Son whom the Father loved and who was in the bosom of the Father, was thrust down from the presence of God and the Son,
26 And was called Perdition, for the heavens wept over him–he was Lucifer, a son of the morning.
27 And we beheld, and lo, he is fallen! is fallen, even a son of the morning!
28 And while we were yet in the Spirit, the Lord commanded us that we should write the vision; for we beheld Satan, that old serpent, even the devil, who rebelled against God, and sought to take the kingdom of our God and his Christ–
29 Wherefore, he maketh war with the saints of God, and encompasseth them round about.
5. Moses 4: 1-4
1 AND I, the Lord God, spake unto Moses, saying: That Satan, whom thou hast commanded in the name of mine Only Begotten, is the same which was from the beginning, and he came before me, saying–Behold, here am I, send me, I will be thy son, and I will redeem all mankind, that one soul shall not be lost, and surely I will do it; wherefore give me thine honor.
2 But, behold, my Beloved Son, which was my Beloved and Chosen from the beginning, said unto me–Father, thy will be done, and the glory be thine forever.
3 Wherefore, because that Satan rebelled against me, and sought to destroy the agency of man, which I, the Lord God, had given him, and also, that I should give unto him mine own power; by the power of mine Only Begotten, I caused that he should be cast down;
4 And he became Satan, yea, even the devil, the father of all lies, to deceive and to blind men, and to lead them captive at his will, even as many as would not hearken unto my voice.
Frank, with all due respect because it is after all your blog and all…there you go again. 🙂 There’s nothing blasphemous about 1) believing in God and Jesus Christ and 2) believing that They are not done talking yet. That’s basically what we believe.
I’d say most other Christians would agree on #1 but disagree on #2. Fair enough. Most people voted for Democrats last year too.
#2 (that is, the fact that God and Jesus Christ are not done talking yet) is based on the fact that God and Jesus Christ visited Joseph Smith 190 years ago in answer to his prayer and directed him to restore Christ’s church, which ceased to exist when the apostles died. Joseph had so many visions, and so did so many people around him, that you almost cannot make this stuff up. That doesn’t prove it’s true, but it’s worth noting.
Think about it: why would Joseph choose to keep preaching what you call “blasphemous” and “wacky” things when it lead him to a life of persecution and poverty, culminating in his violent murder along with that of his brother Hyrum? After 20 years, don’t you think he would have said, “I’ve had enough; to heck with this whole start-my-own-church thing,” if he was just making it all up?
Check out Joseph Smith’s Testimony for his own account. Pray about it. You can find out for yourself. At the very least, maybe you won’t find us so “wacky” anymore.
Gary S. Also on this topic why does God love the people 2000 years ago more then us. He sent them Prophets and spoke from the heavens…he must have CHANGED and stopped after Christ.