I’m all for second chances, but I guess I just don’t get it with Michael Vick. It’s probably the nature of the crime. I like dogs, and extreme cruelty to dogs to me is just slightly less worse than cruelty to children; I don’t really get how you come back from that.
“I was molesting children only because I didn’t know that was wrong. But now that I got caught I totally realize it’s wrong and want a second chance.”
This isn’t just one mistake; this is a fundamental malfunction in the guy’s moral makeup. It’s not a simple thing to turn a blind eye to such cruelty as dog fighting; that’s sociopathy. Dog’s give their complete trust to people, and to use that to torture and kill them is not normal human behavior. And we’re supposed to believe he completely rearranged how his brain works because he got caught and served some jail time?
Then again, I guess you don’t need to not be a sociopath to be a good quarterback.
I am with you. There is something fundamentally wrong – and irreparable – with someone who can do that to a dog.
People want to pretend that it is just about dog fighting, but it is about brutally killing dogs up close and personal.
That is a defective human being.
The more awful you are, the more you are a liberal hero. Like Che Guevara or Hugo Chavez.
While in a rest stop on Sunday, I overheard some gentleman proudly declaring himself a “Vick man”. “He deserves MVP! If he had played the whole season, he would have it in the bag!” Such people, I’m sure, were once cracking jokes two or three years ago.
It’s all enough to make me long for the days of T.R. when football was a brutal sport and not a brutal, greedy, and hypocritical sport.
Shucks, I won’t mention this year’s Heisman winner.
Michael Vick should not be playing pro football. He should be working at a McDonald’s somewhere for 7 dollars an hour and should be required to spend 20 hours a week at a local animal shelter. He is a sick human being and I’m not buying the whole “oops, now I get it” thing…
Absolutely. This was not just a one-time lapse in judgment. It wasn’t some drunken frat-boy folly. This was systematic killing by torture – including beatings, electrical shock and drowning. This was Michael Vick’s hobby.
I’m sorry, but dogs are nowhere near people (let alone children!) on the morality scale. Not even close. Barely same planet. Doesn’t mean what he did wasn’t wrong, but it isn’t some horrendous crime against humanity.
Unless what DamnCat says is true. That’s a sign of something waaay deeper. They start with squirrels, then cats, and they work their way up. But prison isn’t for those people. They need a different sort of institution. (That said, that doesn’t sound right. That’s a piss-poor way to get a fighting dog, and a fighting dog is quite the investment, especially for the quality a NFL quarterback could command. Torturing gladiators or slaves doesn’t get you good gladiators nor slaves, and fighting dogs are much the same.)
To top it all off-He’s not that good of a quarterback
You are right TheRoyalFamily – dogs are not equivalent to children. But they are not equivalent to most other animals either. Dogs, cats, and horses hold a special relationship with humans. Killing them for fun or sport is not the same as hunting deer or pheasant. Sometimes they must be killed for the sake of either mercy or safety – but that is always a regrettable and solemn duty for any decent person.
As for whether what I wrote is true – perhaps you’d believe Sports Illustrated:
Frank – please moderate my comment
I like Michael Vicks when I have a cold with a sore throat.
Good thing he only did this to innocent dogs who look to us the way we look to God. Imagine if he had done those things to a terrorist with a ticking bomb! Then the left would have gotten upset. Actually sounds like he has a good skill set send him to gitmo. Has Barney Frank already hired him for his next party?
Whats with the collective black community? OJ, Obama, Vick, white democrats(great society, KKK etc..)? Why do they have this crazy case of treating bad people who are manipulating them as martyrs?
All the blacks I have worked with in Chicago were all good people. In fact when I worked for [censored] the black people were the ones who read their bibles on their lunch breaks while some of the white people were having lunch time adultery. I bet you everyone one of them voted Obama and nearly all of them backed OJ. I guess having always been a “pariah” of sorts I dont get the whole “groupthink/fear/revenge/mob” experience. It looks and feels wrong and unappealing to me like watching people eat arugula or foie gras.
“I like dogs, and extreme cruelty to dogs to me is just slightly less worse than cruelty to children”
100% disagree with you here, Frank. Nothing is worse than cruelty to children. You should be coming around to that viewpoint shortly, being the new parent.
Wait a minute, I think I misread that as “slightly worse”. Slightly less worse it read.
Sorry, never mind….
He did his time for his crime, which is a lot more than most celebrities and/or star athletes would have suffered. He is a tremendously talented athlete and has shown growth in both his game and life choices.
Maybe he grew up in an environment where dogs were viewed more as simple beasts (which they are, no matter how domesticated) and are not treasured as ‘family members’. Fighting, in his understanding then, was a sport involving mere animals, from which he had a learned detachment.
He has acknowledged others love for the animals, paid the price for his crimes against them, and has possibly realigned his attitudes towards the dogs more in line with the mainstream. He is not stupid (one attribute of a successful quarterback is generally a certain level of intelligence), and it IS quite likely that he has changed for the better due to the punishment and education he has received over the last few years.
Am I an apologist? Maybe. Do I love animals? Yes, but love and value humans more, so I want to believe that he has seen the error of his ways and is seeking to better himself in that area.
I have the animals (many kinds/sizes) and I am not allowed near shelters/pounds for fear that the ugliest and/or lamest will be brought home and added to the mix (I have the space and resources, so calm your abuse-through-hoarding cries). I also have a pair of kids located in an area of the country where ‘gaming’ with both dogs and roosters is a common, if illegal, practice. It happens for real folks, and is done by many folks whose accent you may find a tad backwoods and/or foreign, but also folks you might find engaging were you to speak with them for any length of time.
To paraphrase: Let he who is without sin, heave the stone of the self-righteous.
Get off your high friggin’ horse folks and cut the guy a break willya.
Signed,
A Yankee Animal Lover
I’m disgusted. You’re all racist. Remember: dog fighting is part of black culture per Whoopi Goldberg. Where’s your sense of cultural awareness?
Too soon?
“Whoever is righteous has regard for the life of his beast, but the mercy of the wicked is cruel.” Proverbs. True dat.
No, I agree – the value of a dog is not equal to that of a child. If he did that to a child, I’d be in favor of wrapping Vick in bacon and turning him loose in a closed room full of hungry Rottweilers. What Vick deserves is to be shunned by civilization in its entirety, which means that even the Raider Nation would have to think twice about offering him a job.
I’m a Gints fan, and I know that the Mara’s would not hire Vick were they past their third string QB.
Dogs do not rank as people. I have a dog whom I love dearly, but I know the difference between crimes against humans and crimes against animals. That said, I also understand that serving a term for a crime does not imply absolution for that crime. At some point, you have to make a judgement as to what level of crime should disqualify a player — who has been convicted and served his sentence — from playing pro sports. To make the excuse of “he has served his time,” or that “he’s only hired to play football,” is to punt on the morality of the issue. Everyone has a level of crime for which they would disqualify a player.
I wish that teams like the Eagles had more of a spine on moral issues. I wish the same for their fans. It’s an identity thing. It seems that just as most African Americans will forgive Vick, so will those Eagles fans who are not African Americans. To her credit, my mum, a long time Eagles fan, dropped them the day they signed Vick.
Here’s a litmus test, although I’m still not certain why we test lichen. If a popular NFL player has a morals issue that prevents him from getting a national endorsement with any other sponsor than Nike, they prolly shouldn’t be in the league.
Does everyone know that Vick wants a dog of his own? Rehabilitation, or a chance to make sympathetic photo shoots?
People who are deliberately cruel to animals are not far removed from doing the same to human beings. I knew a kid who killed cats, squirrels and rabbits for fun, and the longer it took, the more he liked it. As a teenager he escalated to slashing the throats of goats and sheep. He was truly creepy and last I knew he was in the pen for manslaughter.
Mike Vick is an embarrassment to the NFL.
“Get off your frigging high horse folks and cut the guy a break.” Who’s on a “high horse”, Mr. Bubba? No one more so than you. “But I love and value humans more”. So what? I find it interesting the people who do the “you should value humans more preaching.” Why? Is there only a certain amount “value” in your heart that if you give some to animals there is less left for humans? Of course not. I can “value” animals with all my heart but it doesn’t diminish my love for humans. Or vice-versa. Many felons can’t own guns. Chld molestors are restricted on their dealings with children. People like Vick shouldn’t be allowed to own animals. Bubba, continuing- “…in an area of the country where gaming with dogs and roosters is a common, if illegal practice”. It happens for real folks, and is done by many folks…” And your point is…what? It’s illegal but it’s ok because it’s done by “real” folks? What are “real folks”? How’s this- People who don’t want to “cut the guy a break”, as you say, are also “real folks”. In the end, as was said elsewhere, President Obummer should have first congratulated the folks (Friends of Animals), who took Vick’s dogs (who were still alive), and found them homes. Then, maybe, the Eagles organization.
@j. l. Right !!!
The problem with excusing evil is how quickly the evil becomes the new normal.
He has not done his time. He has done the time the court told him to do, but the court told him incorrectly. The correct amount of time is the rest of his life.
The only way I would think better of Michael Vick would have been if he had gone off and lived a life of kindness after “serving his time…paying for his crime”.
Instead, this “man” (I hate putting him in the same category as my husband and son) has shown nothing but contempt for those who are appalled at his actions. He is exactly the same person he was before jail, just a little poorer. But not by much.
He didn’t just run a dogfighting ring. He participated in the systematic torture of dogs. He contributed to the common misconception that pit bulls are vicious, terrifying dogs not worthy of being treated humanely.
As I typed this, a beautiful, sleepy pit bull is resting her nose against my leg on the couch…snoring softly. A pooch that someone had dumped in a construction lot as a puppy. Probably because they figured no one would ever want her as a pet. Thanks, in large part, to thugs like Michael Vick.
Yeah, there’s something wrong with people who find such things amusing. I’m all for the use of animals for tests and research that will help humanity, even if it results in pain or death for the animal. After all, the life of one human being is more valuable than the lives of every animal on the planet. But, just as in slaughtering animals for food, every effort should be made to minimize the suffering of such animals, and to cause pain and death to any creature merely for your own amusement is inherently immoral, and indicative of a serious psychological problem.
And on the subject of pit bulls, it has been my experience that they tend to be very gentle and affectionate creatures, when raised with kindness. I think the reason that many people fear them isn’t so much that they’re inherently vicious, because they’re not. It’s because they’re such powerful animals that, when trained to fight and kill, they’re hideously lethal. I used to work for a veterinarian years ago, and we treated two pit bulls that had been taken from their owner by animal control. He was training them to fight, and both were pretty shredded. And even after all that, they were very sweet and patient, at least with people. I had to clean their wounds, and it was clearly very uncomfortable for them, but they bared it and let us help them. Not so much with other animals… They reacted to the sound or presence of other dogs with extreme aggression. Understandable, I suppose. I hope they found good homes.
Anyone who abides Vick or attempts to pretend he has paid for his crimes is human garbage. And there are a few of you in this thread.
What vick did was beyond inhuman, and the problem is far more than seeking justice. He is a creature with tremendous evil in his heart that is capable of tremendous harm. He shouldn’t be allowed near kids, let alone dogs.
And this is something mentally healthy people do not need me to explain to them. That Whoopie or the NFL or Obama feel the urge to lift him up whatsoever, or explain for him, or even lionize him as reformed, speaks incredibly poorly of them.
There are more important things to worry about than this sick little freak, but he is a sick freak.
Just so we know what we’re talking about here, this is just one of the charges from Vick’s indictment:
“83. In or about April 2007, PEACE, PHILLIPS, and VICK executed approximately 8 dogs that did not perform well in “testing” sessions at 1915 Moonlight Road by various methods, including hanging, drowning, and slamming at least one dog’s body to the ground.”
July 2007 Federal Indictment against Vick
These are things he did: Electrocute, drown and hang dogs, while beating another to death against a wall. If there were pictures of that event, would Vick have a chance in hell of playing in the NFL?
j.l.:”…President Obummer should have first congratulated the folks (Friends of Animals), who took Vick’s dogs (who were still alive), and found them homes. Then, maybe, the Eagles organization.”
I agree with you in that Obama should have called the Friends of Animals folks and tipped a hat to the people who have given homes to the dogs…hell, it was on W’s watch this came out, so maybe he should have done it THEN. Calling the Eagles, now that Vick is making noise in the NFL, was just a publicity stunt, and improperly held up Vick as a hero/champion of the human spirit.
My point about it being common in parts of the country, was merely to state that it is possible, due to environment, that what we ‘civilized folk’ view as cruel and inhuman, is accepted and common. I am not saying that it makes it right, but that it is not viewed as ‘wrong’ in some areas/cultures.
You are right, I am on my high horse about letting the guy come back in his choosen career. Am I a fan of his abilities? Yes, always have been. Do I champion his success BECAUSE of his past crimes? NO. Is he a great come back story, or fine example for (my) children? NO, he is a dirtbag, with talent enough to move on by playing football in the NFL because he puts fannys in the seats. FYI: I will not watch the Eagles, and will root AGAINST his success, but I will not begrudge the man a paycheck for something NOT related to his past criminal offenses, as long as they stay in the past.
Give the guy a dog??!!?? Ahhh, NO. That is PR BS.
I didn’t know Vick killed dogs. I thought he killed those horrible pit bull things.
ccoffer: If that is sarcasm, you failed. If it isn’t, may a gerbil bite your junk.
Bubba I’m from one of those parts of the country you allude to. All the way back to Oglethorpe and the people who came with him. It is my considered opinion (as well as my father’s , my late Granddaddies’ and numerous others) that the folks who participate in dog fighting are just trash. Furthermore if they can’t treat a dog right you can’t expect them to do any better with people.
Bullies pure and simple
And “Bratgirl”, may you be that gerbil.
Where’s Mike Vick when you really need him?
1. The guy went to jail and served his sentence. You don’t think the sentence was tough enough? Get to work changing the law — you don’t get to tack on more penalties after the fact. His horrible conduct doesn’t go to his integrity as an athlete (unlike, say, betting on games), so there’s no right to deny him how he makes his living.
2. You don’t like that the NFL will allow a person convicted of animal cruelty to play in their games? Don’t watch. It’s just sports entertainment, surely purists such as yourselves can find more rewarding uses for your time. How about taking in a dog show?
#31 – ccoffer,
‘Where’s Mike Vick when you really need him?’ – As what? Bait for the dogs? I hear he’s some sort of athlete, I bet he could have stayed ahead of that pack for at least a block before they dragged him down…
He was sentenced for illegal gambling, not animal abuse. I understand it was part of his plea bargain, but that doesn’t mean I have to like it. I do watch the occasional NFL game with my husband. We both cheer every time that loser is sacked.
Believe it or not, my opinion is as valid as yours. You are not superior to me, and I am not to you. We simply disagree on how we think sick criminals should be treated after jail.
I would suggest you read “The Lost Dogs”. If you can stomache getting past the part where Michael Vick and one of his friends execute a dog for refusing to fight by him grabbing the dogs two front legs, the other the dogs two back legs, and then swinging up, then down onto a concrete floor. But wait, she didn’t die the first time! They had to do this three more times! In the end, she had one side of her skull smashed, numerous broken bones on one side of her chest, and four broken ankles. Then they dragged her out and buried her in the yard. This was what Michael Vick admitted to in his plea bargain. Along with assisting in holding four other dogs heads in buckets of water until they drown and hanging four others from a beam in the attic. The lucky dogs were the ones that got gun shots to the head. Apparently, this was a privilege reserved for the “good” fighters.
Let me repeat, Dan, he was NOT convicted of animal cruelty. He admitted to it as part of his plea bargain and paid a monetary settlement for the care of the dogs that were still alive when found. He was convicted and sentenced for running an illegal gambling ring.
This might not matter to you, the average rabid football fan, but it does to me. I cannot deny his his “right to earn a living”. Nor would I. But I can sure as heck voice my anger that his “living” is millions of dollars and the adoration of people. It makes me very sad that anyone would defend that monster. It wasn’t a mistake, it was his hobby.
ccoffer:
In regards to your link. You are a sick man if you think that an animal should be slammed repeatedly into concrete for any reason…even a vicious attack like that. I’m in favor of the death penalty, but I don’t think it would be right for us to treat humans that murder like that, much less a dog that has so much less of a sense of right and wrong.
One quick question before I get back to watching a repeat telecast of the last big game (as all us “rabid” fans do): was Vick convicted of animal cruelty?
I’m not the sick one, “bratgirl. I’m not the one who worships animals. I blame Walt Disney.
Every dog in the world isn’t worth the life of one person. If you disagree, you are one of the animal worshipers.
The NFL is full of people who have deliberately harmed other helpless human beings, and you don’t give a good god dang about them. You reserve your version of compassion for a dog. THAT, bratgirl’, is sick.
Its not a question of hurting animals. per se. It’s a matter of priorities. Yours are pretty effed up.
Selah
I think Michael Vick should be allowed to have another dog, on one condition: It must be a dog that is, at a healthy weight, ten pounds or less.
Let’s see him impress his friends by fighting Chihuahuas.