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Usually IMAO flies under the radar of left-wing blogs. They want stuff to be angry about, but who could be angry at fun-loving IMAO? We only want to nuke the moon — there aren’t even people there to hurt. Still, we’ve had our run ins with some of them such as when some guy named digby criticized us for our “hostile” humor and Amanda Marcotte and her commenters once spent about 500 pages in a horribly pedantic analysis of whether a post of mine was technically “satire.”
Now, Sadly, No! — a left-wing humor site — has latched on to our Fred Thompson Facts. By itself, it’s not that notable. It seems to be a lashing out at how the left-wing blogs’ favorite candidate Edwards is perceived as being “swishy,” and now they must be further frustrated on that count since Edwards took time out of the last debate to criticize Hillary Clinton’s outfit. The humor seems borne more out of being angry than being clever, but their audience seems to like it so I can’t really criticize.
Anyway, what was interesting to me was the monologue preceding the humor where this bit caught my eye:
Not that we don’t have a begrudging sort of respect for the I.M.A.O.s of the world. After all, it’s sort of mulishly courageous to tackle humor as they do, from the opposite end of what is actually funny. Very few humorists can find comedy in the violent victimization of the marginalized by the overclass, largely because there isn’t any. But points to I.M.A.O. for trying. And even if their output isn’t — how shall we put it? — ‘funny in the slightest,’ at the very least it makes for a nice sort of homage to the Golden Age of Beer Hall comedy. . .a kind of living monument to the jackbooted stylings of those brownshirted stand-ups who, once upon a time, quite literally ‘killed’ at venues across Europe.
Now, if this was meant in jest, it’s exceptionally clever. Basically they’re poking fun at their own side and how many have an overwrought hatred of any one with a different political viewpoint. It’s much more self-aware than you’d find anywhere on DailyKos. If it’s meant even partly serious, though, then it’s rather sad.
And that’s the problem with a humor site with politics like that of the popular left-wing blogs. If you handed me something written by Glenn Greenwald and said, “Here’s this hilarious parody of a left-winger I wrote!” I’d think it was some genius satire and admire the work you put in it (“Wow. You kept it up for like five pages.”). When I first read Amanda Marcotte, I thought she was joking as she preached a kind of feminism I had long thought was made up by the older conservatives to scare us. So, when a left-wing site is sometimes trying to be funny, how can you tell when it’s saying something in jest or when it’s saying something ridiculous with a hilarious though somewhat sad earnestness? When many on that side honestly believe the government is behind 9/11 and that President Bush is going to establish a dictatorship before leaving office, how can you tell when they’re joking about something?
If I were to guess, I’d say who wrote that at Sadly, No! meant it seriously. That’s because it’s extremely rare to see left-wingers use self-deprecating humor about their own politics. I could write a whole paper on the reasons why for that, but just think about: How often do right-wingers make jokes using the left-wing’s stereotypes of them? We here at IMAO do it about every other post; it’s fun to pretend to be a mindless warmonger who hates the poor. Now how often have you seen a left-winger make a jokes using the right-wings stereotypes of them. I can’t think of very many instances; they really hate those perceptions of them and don’t find anything about them funny.
So, if I’m wrong and that statement from Sadly, No! was completely in jest, it was all the more exceptional.
What do you think? Do you think they were joking, or do they really think our humor makes us like Nazis? If so, then which posts are the Nazi ones? Maybe it was the one where I drew Kos with exaggerated Jewish features.
UPDATE:
I got a response in the comments from what seems like a dour, humorless person. I’d thought I’d put it here with my response:
1: Power. The powerless use humor to try to deflate those with power over them.
That’s one use of humor, but it’s far from the only use. Most people who play the game of “[insert group here] can’t be funny” start by making up their own esoteric definition of what constitutes humor, trying to make complex a simple human impulse.
When the powerful make fun of those beneath them, that’s not funny, it’s cruel. It comes off like cheerleaders mocking the poor kids for wearing hand-me-downs. Brandi and Candi might laugh, but it’s not “humorous.”
Ridiculing is actually the basis of all humor (or so I argue). Still, calling all the humor of one side “bullying” shows a very narrow mind which probably isn’t open to actual discussion in the first place. It also shows absolutely no understanding of humor (which isn’t to say the person is incapable of humor; just incapable of understanding it outside partisan blinders).
It’s hard to make stuff funny when one side is dedicated to bringing Americans together to make things better for all of us and the opposing side is devoted to accentuating the divisions between different groups to increase their power.
Of course, this is just one person’s retarded viewpoint of the world which is shared only by a small fringe. Who gets to say what it funny and what isn’t is the audience to the humor. You can’t just say that it’s only humor if people with my own narrow political viewpoint thinks its funny; everyone can play that game and its completely pointless.
2: Fringe reality. The fraction of Kosites who believe that Bush was ACTUALLY behind 9/11 is roughly the same as the fraction of $Con_site who believe that Hillary is ACTUALLY a lesbian Mossad agent who had Vince Foster murdered b/c he wouldn’t keep quiet about Bill importing planeloads of cocaine into Arkansas. It’s a big country full of weirdos of all types and the internet just makes them a lot louder.
Of course, this is more a political than a humor argument. Those viewpoints make the recommended diaries (though 9/11 conspiracies are now verboten from Kos). Polls — as useful as they are — show those viewpoints are significant among Democrats and thus even more significant among the fringe that is Kos. I don’t think most fervently believe the conspiracies, and it’s mainly just how silly their partisanship has gotten that they even consider them.
Anyway, the person who wrote this comment obviously has a silly little viewpoint and takes himself way too seriously. From his own definition, that makes him the pompous one to deflate using humor. If this is the writer of the Sadly, No! post, then they really should change their name to the exclamation of “That’s not funny!”
UPDATE 2:
Phelps has an example of how the violent victimization of the marginalized by the overclass can be hilarious.
I laughed.
The funny thing is that the “Fixed Fred Thompson Facts” are just John Edwards facts in disguise. I suppose John Edwards may wish that he was Fred Thompson, and even lied about it to the gullible nutroots, which would cause them to believe that those are, in fact, accurate.
Sorry for double-posting, but for the sake of my honor, I have to say this.
The TR who idiotically comments on SadlyNo is not me…I need a new name.
It’s important to help young comedians. I’ll help them craft properly progressive Comedy Gold:
SadlyNo! Fred Thompson Fact of the Day:
Fred Thompson-itler should say no to occupation and pollution!!!! Say no to our government of the imperialists, by the rednecks, and for the NRA!!!! The truth is at progressivevegansforsocialjustice.org!! Speaking of Fred Thompson: The Sicko Thief-in-Chief’s War Against Free Health CARE MUST end now!!! It’s like 1939 all over again!!! Halliburton? John Roberts!!? Jeb Bu$$$h!!!? I can’t tell one CONservative shill Skull & Bones chimp for Israel from the other!! War on terror, indeed.
::Daily Show-style “whoooos” from the studio audience::
1: Power. The powerless use humor to try to deflate those with power over them.
[That’s one use of humor. Don’t begin to believe humor is limited to your own small mind can think of.]
When the powerful make fun of those beneath them, that’s not funny, it’s cruel. It comes off like cheerleaders mocking the poor kids for wearing hand-me-downs. Brandi and Candi might laugh, but it’s not “humorous.”
[Bull. That’s only one person’s skewed perception of reality.]
It’s hard to make stuff funny when one side is dedicated to bringing Americans together to make things better for all of us and the opposing side is devoted to accentuating the divisions between different groups to increase their power.
[Bull. You understand your viewpoint is just your own retarded perception and not shared by most Americans… and thus irrelevant to the humor?]
2: Fringe reality. The fraction of Kosites who believe that Bush was ACTUALLY behind 9/11 is roughly the same as the fraction of $Con_site who believe that Hillary is ACTUALLY a lesbian Mossad agent who had Vince Foster murdered b/c he wouldn’t keep quiet about Bill importing planeloads of cocaine into Arkansas. It’s a big country full of weirdos of all types and the internet just makes them a lot louder.
[Again, bull. Those viewpoints make the recommended diaries (though 9/11 conspiracies are now verboten from Kos). Polls — as useful as they are — show those viewpoints are significant among Democrats and thus even more significant among the fringe that is Kos. I don’t think most fervently believe the conspiracies, and it’s mainly just how silly their partisanship has gotten that they even consider them.
Anyway you have silly little viewpoint and take yourself way toooooo seriously. From our viewpoint, that makes you the pompous one to deflate using humor. -Ed.]
Since you asked
You democrats aren’t in power?
What happened to the mandate(not a John Edwards Joke) of ’06??
[And, I guess, since I’m more powerful, you can make fun of me but I can’t make fun of you. Then again, you can take my whole blog down, so you do have enough power that I can make fun of you… it just wouldn’t be wise. Because of your power. -Ed.]
It’s hard to make stuff funny when one side is dedicated to bringing Americans together to make things better for all of us and the opposing side is devoted to accentuating the divisions between different groups to increase their power.
Both sides sincerely think this about the other. That’s part of the problem.
Identity plays a big part in humor too. Borscht Belt comedians made fun of other Jews, Chris Rock made great sport of African Americans, and Foxworthy & White take shots at rural whites. They’re at their best because they LOVE their targets. Look at any great sitcom like I Love Lucy or Cheers. You can tell the writers hold genuine affection for each of the characters even though they are constantly the butt of jokes. That’s vital for true humor.
[True humor?]
I don’t see the need for the insults, Frank. You asked what I think about your humor and I answered nicely.
[Perhaps I was pompous and need deflating through humor. And thus the cycle continues. -Ed.]
P.S. 9/11 conspiracies have been banned from Kos since 2001. Trolls and Green party loons and LaRouche supporters try to poison the well and they keep getting deleted.
Something I have noticed about right wing versus left wing satire. The left has some funny satire (Colbert, Billionaires for Bush, etc) because they can do something funny by taking conservative positions to their extremes. You look at Colbert and you realize “Hey, that guy is acting reidiculous — and funny!”)
Our satire is different. Funny conservative satire (like IMAO) is mostly self deprecating. But when we try to satirize the left, we fail. Why? — Because the left itself tends to shade off into parody. No matter how rediculous you try to make a left wing position look, no one realizes it is parody because some prominant leftists probably hold that position.
Look at “Communists for Kerry” — they pushed satire to the limit. They joined demostrations dressed like Lenin and the like and no one noticed! Fox News, Time and the Washington Post reported them as a straight story.
Or look at libertarian group Bureaucrash — they showed up at a state green convention and set up a table for “Progressives Against Progress” calling for, among other things, the Greens to nominate Fidel Castro for President. Not only did no one notice, people signed their castro petition.
The left is beyond parody, so it is impossible to base humor on them.
Fred Thomas is red with anger over the Fixed Fred Thompson Facts. Luckily he has a large supply of Bella Pierre Autumn Glow Concealer for just such occasions!
[That’s kinda clever, it’s just the whole thrust of the FFTF seems to me to be an odd choice. Then again, I’m not a left-wing blogger! -Ed.]
Video did not kill the radio star, Fred Thompson did.
Frank, why do you torment us by virtually inviting the smelly hippies from SadlyNoWeHaventCommittedSuicideYetButOurStashIsLow
AndWeHaventGottenOurWelfareChecksYetSoHeresHoping.com to pollute this paragon of humor? Compared to them, the Paul-bots are funny, insightful and persuasive.
[Have you no interest in the name of science? -Ed.]
When I visit liberal sites (when I can stomach it, anyway), I’m amazed at how they so often disparage conservative sites for their humor or writing styles. Yet they turn around and copy them & do their own versions based on the stuff they were initially trying to ridicule.
‘Anything you can do, I can do better…’
SYA-
//cheerleaders mocking the poor kids for wearing hand-me-downs. Brandi and Candi might laugh, but it’s not “humorous.//
Isn’t that just another way to perpetuate the notion that all cheerleaders are haughty rich girls? And look at your choice of names for them. Do you think they’re slutty pole dancers, too? I’ve known several cheerleaders who had names like Jen, Sarah, Nicole, Margaret, etc. & they were nice people.
One thing, SYA, that may be the biggest difference between, let’s say IMAO & DailyKos, is that those of us who contribute or comment here at IMAO generally don’t seethe with hate for those whom we may be not agree with, as opposed to the constant verbal spewing & death wishes for all people non-liberal at DK.
We don’t celebrate for weeks when a perceived foe dies (Molly Ivins, for example. She passed on last year & was given a respectful write up here.), as opposed to the sheer elation & unbridled joy expressed by DKers over the deaths of Ronald Regan and Jerry Falwell.
We get angry when stupid people do inexplicable things, like when Mr. Cho killed several schoolmates & a Professor at Virginia Tech, as opposed to writing him a flowery eulogy like a Kos contributor did.
We get labeled by real winners at both sites with comments disparaging us all as being:
Elitist rich, yet white trash.
Nazis, yet Zionist conspirators.
Cultural elitists, yet rednecks.
Here’s one that illustrates their grasp on reality:
Cock-sucking homophobes…
Does it get any funnier? It’s like being called a racist juedo (juedo being a racist Latino term for a white man)! And your notion of power is pretty damn funny, too. You basically stated that one group can say whatever they want about another, but the other group can’t reciprocate because… that’d just be wrong.
That’s about as absurd as the notion that minorities can’t actually be racist towards Whites because they’re minorities & their hate speech is just a form of cultural expression.
Now THAT’S a joke.
“It’s hard to make stuff funny when one side is dedicated to bringing Americans together to make things better for all of us and the opposing side is devoted to accentuating the divisions between different groups to increase their power.”
Ah, got it. The poster is actually from that Mirror Universe place where all the good guys in this universe are bad guys with evil-looking gotees. Quick! jump back through the swirly thing before you cause a time… space… um, rip… or something.
Either that or come to terms with the fact that, in this universe, most of the “bringing Americans together” folks are on the Right, not the Left.
//”Hey, that guy is acting reidiculous — and funny!”//
Posted by: Me on July 30, 2007 05:29 PM
I don’t know if that was a typo when you spelled ridiculous, but I like the change!
You shameless hussy.
Sprightly Touch: Basically that means they are going to gay them up for you, Hussy.
… it’s extremely rare to see left-wingers use self-deprecating humor about their own politics. I could write a whole paper on the reasons why for that, …
I will look forward to reading the reasons why for that.
Funny conservative satire (like IMAO) is mostly self deprecating. But when we try to satirize the left, we fail.
So true. I rarely tell jokes that aren’t self-parodies, though I do it so much no one can tell when I’m joking anymore. Some people think I actually believe the French are more closely related to chimps then humans…
It’s hard to make stuff funny when one side is dedicated to bringing Americans together to make things better for all of us and the opposing side is devoted to accentuating the divisions between different groups to increase their power.
Um, SYA, now I am confused. Which side are you on? Isn’t your “opposing side” actually the Dems? Race baiting, for example, has been elevated to standard operating procedure in that camp. Before I recovered and went right, I attended Midwest Academy in Chicago (twice!) and that was a tactic that was held in high esteem.
sorry for double dipping….my trigger finger gets twitchy sometimes….
“I suppose John Edwards may wish that he was Fred Thompson”
bwahahaa. Yes, like Marilyn Monroe would have wished she was some other profoundly ugly and ungainly woman in her time.
PS. Here’s how you ranked on the humour scale last year.
http://2006.weblogawards.org/2006/12/best_humor_blog.php
[Egads! We lost in an internet poll, the venue in which Ron Paul is the most successful politician ever! -Ed.]
[Egads! We lost in an internet poll, the venue in which Ron Paul is the most successful politician ever! -Ed.]
Coincidentally, Ron Paul and SadlyNoOurIQsAreNotEvenApproachingFreezingOnTheCelsiusScale.com have the same constituency – mentally retarded monkeys with internet access in their parents’ basement/termite mound.
“I suppose John Edwards may wish that he was Fred Thompson”
bwahahaa. Yes, like Marilyn Monroe would have wished she was some other profoundly ugly and ungainly woman in her time.
This was a shameful chapter in our country’s history and it’s time to move on from the 1950s – Admit it, Marilyn Monroe was a fat annoying ditzy chick. The only thing she had in commmon with John Edwards is I.Q.
There has never been and will never be anything funny that could not hurt someone’s feelings. Comedy is cruelty and cruelty is apart of the human condition. Humorless leftists refuse to accept the unavoidable cruelty that just happens by living in a fallen world, and thus can never laugh at a Larry poking Curly in the eye. Poor stupid leftists.
Lesley-
//PS. Here’s how you ranked on the humour scale last year.
http://2006.weblogawards.org/2006/12/best_humor_blog.php//
Not only that, but IMAO didn’t even rank in 2001!
Also, we spell it ‘humor’, not ‘humour’, on the this side of the pond. If you’re going to put us in our place, at least do it using the proper lexicon; that extra U just throws us for a loop.
i’ll tell you what’s funny. Seeing that lardass Fred driving around in his pickup truck in my county, giving his good ole boy shtick.
What the heck is La Roche Posay Rosaliac Gelee Micellar Make-up Removal Gel? Just copying and pasting it made my wrist limp and my voice climb three octaves. I think its a Harry Potter-style incantation to morph people into John Edwards clones. If I remember my anti-Edwards incantations correctly, the counter spell is “.40 hydro shocks in a Heckler & Koch USP with laser sights and a FOBUS paddle holster.” There. I now have strength in my wrist again.
I really should find the time to read IMAO earlier in the day. I comment at the last minute.
“I suppose John Edwards may wish that he was Fred Thompson”
bwahahaa. Yes, like Marilyn Monroe would have wished she was some other profoundly ugly and ungainly woman in her time.
……..
So you just compared John Edwards to Marilyn Monroe. Classic.
LOL. As John McLaughlin would say, D. Aristophanes has stumbled uncontrollably into the truth. Humor is best when it’s not conformist.
Expecting a Liberal to get the joke is like expecting Ted Kennedy to pick up the check for drinks or Bill Clinton to NOT hit on his new intern, assistant, waitress or the cashier at the “Stop and Go” on the highway out of Little Rock.
The world might just end. (they’d be happy, the worst case scenario finally happened.
Having someone with no sense of humor tell you that you’e not funny doesn’t mean that you’re the funniest person ever…but it’s a good start! Where did I leave those jack-boots and that brown-shirt?…got me some victimizin’ and oppressin’ to do!
Hrm, brownshirts = Nazi reference = invoking Hitler. Since Godwin’s Law technically applies to the whole Internet (even though you and this other asshat were not having a “debate” in the same forum), I think that means you win by default judgment. Nice work, Frank.
It’s pretty clear, I think, that the FFTFs are just not funny by any objective measure. I read the whole thread…this was the only one close to funny:
“FTF: Fred Thompson’s gaze can kill small animals.
FFTF: Every time a republican masturbates, Fred Thompson kills a kitten.”
Isn’t that clever? She (he, perhaps, I’d hate to offend) took what actually makes the Fred Thompson facts funny and twisted it a little to make it funny from a liberal viewpoint. Given enough monkeys at typewriters, you’ll eventually get something nearly as funny as IMAO. Most of the time you just end up with KOS, though.
Wait, is this post satire or parody?
I’ll have to wait for the That’s Not Funny! write up so I’ll know.
Leftys cant go five minutes without showing how superior they are to other people. They are like the stuck up girl click in high school. Humor to them is a way to show their disdain for others who are not as cool as they are, and therefore everyone else uses humor exactly in the same way (at least in the liberal mind).
So they are superior because their humor is “approved” because it “supports the victim” versus the “oppressors”. IMAO is not funny because it is not part of the click, but it would be hilarious if it was reposted on Sadly No (and didn’t make the left look bad).
The concept of humor being funny for its own sake, or being satire, doesn’t compute in leftopia. They can do no wrong, so there is no need to improve, and they can’t make fun of themselves because it would break up the tribe and membership is the whole point.